Chautauqua or ASA?

[ReportCanoa]

Cheap jets, calls on your day off, what more could one want.

 

[resistance]

We will see how much your growing after the judge rules on Eagle's scope clause that our company violated. Your American Connection days are coming to an end soon....

Remember you should gloat because this industry doesn't forget and those who are on top today will be on the bottom tomorrow.

 

[C210drvr]

resistance,

I hate to break it to you, but even if the judge does rule in favor of Eagle, that still doesn't change the fact that Eagle can't fly those routes. You guys still have an ASM cap. Remember? What will the next AA advertisment be? Even more room throughout coach? You guys would have to rip a ton more seats out. I'm not trying to be rude, just a little voice of reality. If you don't like things at Eagle then put in a resume with Chautauqua. You will find plenty of former Eagle pilots that have already done the same. Like one of the other posts said, you have no one to be mad at other than your own managment.

 

[GianniRicco]

And plus if American goes chapter 11 then you can kiss that scope clause good bye.

 

[sf340flyer]

Resistance,

Has Eagle ever flown an airplane into STL?? It was our flying to begin. If you have a problem with us in STL, then you should have a problem with TWA LLC, flying AA routes out of STL. It's the same deal.

"We will see how much your growing after the judge rules on Eagle's scope clause that our company violated." After a saying that shouldn't you be mad at AMR/Eagle not us? I wasn't gloating, if you want me to I will.

 

[RichardFitzwel9]

Cheap jets, calls on your day off, what more could one want.

I think you may want to re-read the post above. They said they can be called for overtime but they don't have to accept. I look back and can think of a few times when I would have appreciated an offer for overtime.

As for cheap jets, maybe its just me, but million dollar prices in the double digits isn't cheap to me. I wanna come work where you work if thats the case. I guess maybe if you compare it to the cost of a 777 or something it looks cheap.

Originally posted by resistance
We will see how much your growing after the judge rules on Eagle's scope clause that our company violated. Your American Connection days are coming to an end soon....

Isn't funny when an attempt to be a smartass blows up in your face? I believe the key to your statement is "that OUR company violated"

Nice one, I needed a good laugh today

 

[GianniRicco]

To all those people above supporting Chautauqua, thank you. I am always suprized at the amount of other carriers that hate you because you offer a good product, or they feel you are flying their routes, or because you under bid them. In these situations you should be mad at your own management, you can't blame the pilot. I mean what do you want us pilots to do, say nope we can't fly these routes because another carrier thinks it should be theirs.

I would also like to add that we a currently hiring 30-45 pilots a month. If you like some info on who to contact or what the interview is like then send me a private message.

Fly Safe

G

 

[79%N1]

All you "it's management, not the pilots" people.....

Get a clue. It is THE PILOT GROUPS that accept the contracts and work rules that allow to underbid other airlines and steal the growth of the like of American Eagle, Mesaba, Allegheny, and Piedmont!

I, one day, actually heard a guy from Mesa say they go along with the crappy contract to continue to get the growth! Great management spin job on that, huh? But the fact that these guys (Mesa, Trans States, Chat, Shuttle America) continue to accept this, and not stand up and raise the bar for the good of reional pilots everywhere -------- THEN THEY INDEED ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!

"I just fly where management tells me......I cant help it if it used to be a ________ route (Insert Eagle, ALG, PDT, Mesaba here)."

The reason management CAN tell you to go out and fly that route is because your $h!t contract that you keep accepting allows them to charge in and underbid companies with better pay and work rules who currently (formerly) fly those routes!

 

[ERJpusher]

79%N1...

ASA's contract (4 year) was effective as of September 15, 1998. CHQ signed its contract (3 year) on November 14, 1998, less than one month later. Let's take a look at ASA and CHQ's contracts and see what it has to say about compensation in the 3rd year of the contract (final year for CHQ):

JET CAPTAIN

Longevity ASA CHQ Difference

Year 1 52.87 50.96 -1.91
Year 2 54.45 52.49 -1.94
Year 3 56.09 54.05 -2.05
Year 4 57.77 55.68 -2.09
Year 5 59.50 57.35 -2.15
Year 6 61.29 59.07 -2.22
Year 7 62.52 60.46 -2.06

JET FIRST OFFICER

Year 1 19.02 19.96 +0.94
Year 2 32.67 23.11 -9.56
Year 3 33.66 32.04 -1.62
Year 4 34.66 33.09 -1.57
Year 5 35.70 34.15 -1.55
Year 6 36.77 35.20 -1.57

Big difference in pay, huh? By making a buck and some change less per hour, we are dragging down the industry, I guess. Not hardly. The only legitimate complaint you really have about pay is 2nd year FO. If you want to say that "CHQ's 2nd year FOs are ruining aviation!!", I suppose I'll go along with that.

When CHQ signed this contract, we were strictly a turboprop carrier, all SAABs and J31s-- NO JETS. Our contract was predicated on turboprops with a blurb for jets "just in case." ASA had 30 jets at the time and has just announced a firm order for 27 more.

We also only had about 250 pilots. Based on a rate of 10 pilots per airplane, ASA had 600 pilots.

And what about CHQs work rules? You keep making these rash claims that our work rules are so bad. Give me some SPECIFIC examples so they can be properly addressed. As far as I can tell, the work rules here are pretty good. My dad is a captain at a major and he thinks they are pretty good, too.

Hiring someone that can offer the same product at a lower price... WHAT A NOVEL IDEA!! Why didn't the business world think of that?! Oh, wait, that is what the business world is all about. I, just like you, want to think this industry is all about us pilots, but it's not. It is about corporations trying to compete with one another and make money doing so. If another airline comes along and outbids us for our routes, of course we are going to lose them. You blame us for outbidding you on routes, but the fact remains that we can do it and STILL make money. Why can't you? It obviously isn't pilot pay, as you can see from above.

So, what gives? We signed our contracts at the same time. ASA had more than twice as many planes and pilots as CHQ. CHQs contract was written for a turboprop company, and ASAs was written after they already had a bunch of jets. And yet the contracts are pretty much the same.

If you want to compare turboprop numbers, we can do that next.

 

[GianniRicco]

Well said EJRPusher.

You can also add that we have been working without a contract for over a year because our union is pusher for better pay.