Chautauqua or ASA?

[skygirls]

Just wondering if anyone has important information about either- Chautauqua or ASA? How are the working conditions, treatment of employees, reserve time, and upgrades? Thanks ahead of time!!

 

[avratdwc]

Take a look and see which of the two is hiring. ASA is holding off till the folks from the EMB are moved to the Jet and CHQ is hiring but I think there is alot of controversy rite now with Wexford Group. Anyways I know pilots at both and they have never complained. The only one I have heard lately is that the lines on ASA have sucked the past couple months and ATL is very stagnant rite now. Thats all I got. CYA

 

[btflyer2]

Will you fly for food?

Ditto previous post. There have been several excellent threads recently on both of these airlines, search back and read, most is current info.

I am in the pool at ASA, looks like no hiring until I am a grandpa. Sadly, I am getting old enough waiting that if I do ever get hired, I will retire a first officer with them. Right now, the ones that are hiring seem to be the lowest paying, worst schedules, worst quality of life, etc.. Unless you have a lot of hours and know someone somewhere else, that is.

Good luck.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

So far we are holding off on off the street hiring. We are putting the E-120's out to pasture and when that is done sometime this year, I would venture to guess we would be hiring again. Of course this all subject to change you know! As far as the lines go, March is a huge improvement over the last few months and expected to get better. The guy who took over in that dept just retired so he was painfully aware of schedule problems. Upgrades...depends on demand. When I got hired in 99 on the ATR, I could hold E-120 Capt before I got out of training. I waited though to hold a line as Capt on the ATR. Even then I still waited another year. Again it all depend on what is going on at the time and what the individual wants.
Hope this helps!

 

[GianniRicco]

Chautauqua Info

The ChQ life isn't too bad. We don't have it the best but we also don't have it the worst. Pay is kinda on the low side, but thats how our management is out bidding all the other airlines. We are expanding real fast. the rumor is 1000 pilots by Janurary. Upgrade was at a stand still but has picked up a lot of steam. I was suppose to be a CA in about a year but looks like it will be in 3 months now. Been withut a contract for about a year with no end in sight. We are also battling the start up of Republic Airlines with furloughed USAir main line pilots.

G

 

[Alaskaairlines]

GianniRicco,

When did you get hired? How fast is FO to CA upgrade with Chtq? Is it quick?

I have a buddy who got on with GLA out of DEN as a FO, flying the line for 2 months, he is expecting captain in 6-8 months, sounds good imo!

How is ASA on that issue?

 

[GianniRicco]

I got hired in 12/00. I would have been a CA by now if it wasn't for 9/11. As it stands I will be one in 3 months. Don't know anything about ASA but CHQ is a great place to work. And we are expanding quickly.

G

 

[79%N1]

Yea, because you accept less than industry pay and work rules, so as to undercut other, usually wholly-owned, airlines in exchange for your growth, esentially squashing the growth of all those other airlines! Chat. may have growth, but before chosing to work there, decide if you want those conditions, or you want to strive for more.

 

[sf340flyer]

79%N1 - You should get your info straight before you go running your mouth. We at Chautauqua are NOT below industry pay. Our Capt. are within 1.50 per hour with ASA (If not closer).

We fly the cheapest jet on the market at about 17 mil. The CRJ (from what I've been told) is around 25 mil. Just from that it looks like the erj can operate cheaper than the crj, but I'm sure t the biggest expense to operate a jet per hour is the crew's pay. Whatever.

Work rules? What are you talking about. Chautauqua has one of the better sets of work rule within the regionals. We DO NOT have junior manning, we get 12 days off a month (11 on RSV). My days off are just that, we can be called for overtime, but we can say no and hang up the phone.

If your company said that we are going to start United and American Codeshares tomorrow with 25 jets apiece, you would be very happy about your growth. You wouldn't feel bad about the jobs you took from another airlines.

If you want to be bitter at someone, choose YOUR managment. They are the ones that make the contracts, not pilots at other airlines. I'm just like you, I show up to work, push my levers, eat my peanuts, and go home.

If you want to discuss this more send me a private message.

Chautauqua E-145 Captain

 

[GianniRicco]

Thanks for the support sf340flyer.

And to the rest of you who hate Chautauqua, too bad and I don't care. I am going to continue to go to work and do my best to make us the best Regional out there. THAT'S BUSINESS. Customers rule, and are all that matters. Treat them with respect and pretend your time is their time (which it really is) and they'll come back to you everytime. And customer loyalty is just about all we have in the business to differentiate us from the competition.

G

 

[ReportCanoa]

Cheap jets, calls on your day off, what more could one want.

 

[resistance]

We will see how much your growing after the judge rules on Eagle's scope clause that our company violated. Your American Connection days are coming to an end soon....

Remember you should gloat because this industry doesn't forget and those who are on top today will be on the bottom tomorrow.

 

[C210drvr]

resistance,

I hate to break it to you, but even if the judge does rule in favor of Eagle, that still doesn't change the fact that Eagle can't fly those routes. You guys still have an ASM cap. Remember? What will the next AA advertisment be? Even more room throughout coach? You guys would have to rip a ton more seats out. I'm not trying to be rude, just a little voice of reality. If you don't like things at Eagle then put in a resume with Chautauqua. You will find plenty of former Eagle pilots that have already done the same. Like one of the other posts said, you have no one to be mad at other than your own managment.

 

[GianniRicco]

And plus if American goes chapter 11 then you can kiss that scope clause good bye.

 

[sf340flyer]

Resistance,

Has Eagle ever flown an airplane into STL?? It was our flying to begin. If you have a problem with us in STL, then you should have a problem with TWA LLC, flying AA routes out of STL. It's the same deal.

"We will see how much your growing after the judge rules on Eagle's scope clause that our company violated." After a saying that shouldn't you be mad at AMR/Eagle not us? I wasn't gloating, if you want me to I will.

 

[RichardFitzwel9]

Cheap jets, calls on your day off, what more could one want.

I think you may want to re-read the post above. They said they can be called for overtime but they don't have to accept. I look back and can think of a few times when I would have appreciated an offer for overtime.

As for cheap jets, maybe its just me, but million dollar prices in the double digits isn't cheap to me. I wanna come work where you work if thats the case. I guess maybe if you compare it to the cost of a 777 or something it looks cheap.

Originally posted by resistance
We will see how much your growing after the judge rules on Eagle's scope clause that our company violated. Your American Connection days are coming to an end soon....

Isn't funny when an attempt to be a smartass blows up in your face? I believe the key to your statement is "that OUR company violated"

Nice one, I needed a good laugh today

 

[GianniRicco]

To all those people above supporting Chautauqua, thank you. I am always suprized at the amount of other carriers that hate you because you offer a good product, or they feel you are flying their routes, or because you under bid them. In these situations you should be mad at your own management, you can't blame the pilot. I mean what do you want us pilots to do, say nope we can't fly these routes because another carrier thinks it should be theirs.

I would also like to add that we a currently hiring 30-45 pilots a month. If you like some info on who to contact or what the interview is like then send me a private message.

Fly Safe

G

 

[79%N1]

All you "it's management, not the pilots" people.....

Get a clue. It is THE PILOT GROUPS that accept the contracts and work rules that allow to underbid other airlines and steal the growth of the like of American Eagle, Mesaba, Allegheny, and Piedmont!

I, one day, actually heard a guy from Mesa say they go along with the crappy contract to continue to get the growth! Great management spin job on that, huh? But the fact that these guys (Mesa, Trans States, Chat, Shuttle America) continue to accept this, and not stand up and raise the bar for the good of reional pilots everywhere -------- THEN THEY INDEED ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!

"I just fly where management tells me......I cant help it if it used to be a ________ route (Insert Eagle, ALG, PDT, Mesaba here)."

The reason management CAN tell you to go out and fly that route is because your $h!t contract that you keep accepting allows them to charge in and underbid companies with better pay and work rules who currently (formerly) fly those routes!

 

[ERJpusher]

79%N1...

ASA's contract (4 year) was effective as of September 15, 1998. CHQ signed its contract (3 year) on November 14, 1998, less than one month later. Let's take a look at ASA and CHQ's contracts and see what it has to say about compensation in the 3rd year of the contract (final year for CHQ):

JET CAPTAIN

Longevity ASA CHQ Difference

Year 1 52.87 50.96 -1.91
Year 2 54.45 52.49 -1.94
Year 3 56.09 54.05 -2.05
Year 4 57.77 55.68 -2.09
Year 5 59.50 57.35 -2.15
Year 6 61.29 59.07 -2.22
Year 7 62.52 60.46 -2.06

JET FIRST OFFICER

Year 1 19.02 19.96 +0.94
Year 2 32.67 23.11 -9.56
Year 3 33.66 32.04 -1.62
Year 4 34.66 33.09 -1.57
Year 5 35.70 34.15 -1.55
Year 6 36.77 35.20 -1.57

Big difference in pay, huh? By making a buck and some change less per hour, we are dragging down the industry, I guess. Not hardly. The only legitimate complaint you really have about pay is 2nd year FO. If you want to say that "CHQ's 2nd year FOs are ruining aviation!!", I suppose I'll go along with that.

When CHQ signed this contract, we were strictly a turboprop carrier, all SAABs and J31s-- NO JETS. Our contract was predicated on turboprops with a blurb for jets "just in case." ASA had 30 jets at the time and has just announced a firm order for 27 more.

We also only had about 250 pilots. Based on a rate of 10 pilots per airplane, ASA had 600 pilots.

And what about CHQs work rules? You keep making these rash claims that our work rules are so bad. Give me some SPECIFIC examples so they can be properly addressed. As far as I can tell, the work rules here are pretty good. My dad is a captain at a major and he thinks they are pretty good, too.

Hiring someone that can offer the same product at a lower price... WHAT A NOVEL IDEA!! Why didn't the business world think of that?! Oh, wait, that is what the business world is all about. I, just like you, want to think this industry is all about us pilots, but it's not. It is about corporations trying to compete with one another and make money doing so. If another airline comes along and outbids us for our routes, of course we are going to lose them. You blame us for outbidding you on routes, but the fact remains that we can do it and STILL make money. Why can't you? It obviously isn't pilot pay, as you can see from above.

So, what gives? We signed our contracts at the same time. ASA had more than twice as many planes and pilots as CHQ. CHQs contract was written for a turboprop company, and ASAs was written after they already had a bunch of jets. And yet the contracts are pretty much the same.

If you want to compare turboprop numbers, we can do that next.

 

[GianniRicco]

Well said EJRPusher.

You can also add that we have been working without a contract for over a year because our union is pusher for better pay.

 

[Mach92]

Year 1 52.87 50.96 -1.91
Year 2 54.45 52.49 -1.94
Year 3 56.09 54.05 -2.05
Year 4 57.77 55.68 -2.09
Year 5 59.50 57.35 -2.15
Year 6 61.29 59.07 -2.22
Year 7 62.52 60.46 -2.06



Double those pay rates at year 3 and that WHERE you both should be in your new contract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whats your MEC asking for??

 

[maddog805]

And what about CHQs work rules? You keep making these rash claims that our work rules are so bad. Give me some SPECIFIC examples so they can be properly addressed. As far as I can tell, the work rules here are pretty good.

You guys must NOT be part of the group that your "great" company FIRED after 9-11. Well I have buddies that were and ask them how they feel about your beloved company. I know what your going to say, "but they called them back so that makes it OK, right?" WRONG. Any company that would do that doesn't care about their employees. If I were you I would hold out for ASA.

 

[sf340flyer]

Maddog805

Chq wasn't the only airline to fire pilots. AA also fired all new hires still in training. It took almost a week for the Union to resolve that issue. Our Union took longer to resolve the issue. I'll tell your friends the same thing I tell the rehires that I fly with, If you hate CHQ so much go somewhere else.

 

[ERJpusher]

Maddog,

I never said that the management here was not flawed. They made a poor decision after Sept. 11 to fire instead of furlough. However, the purpose of my post was not to defend the management group, but the pilot group. In this case, it was "the management, not the pilots" that made this decision.

Once again, the attack on the pilot group at CHQ holds little water. We cannot always evade the decisions of our management, just as you cannot evade yours.

I called for a specific example on our work rules. However, the only thing that has been produced so far is something that is not even outside the power of your own management. ASAs contract is worded almost verbatim to ours on reduction of work force. And as far as yours, Maddog, I couldn't even find any reference to it in Skywest's contract. Are you sure you're protected? It might be a moot point for you since you have a respectible management team, but you never know...

Maddog, it was a terrible thing that happened to our pilots, but it could have happened to any of our companies. Your company and others just chose to deal with it in a more mature way.

When our last contract went into effect, we could have never predicted the events that were to come. However, I can guarantee we will address these items in our new contract. I'm sure that everyone else will, too.

Give us some time to work out our new contract. We have been without a contract since 2001, and we are looking for the best deal we can get. I don't know who starts these rumors that we work for nothing and our work rules are horrible, but they need to do some research before they go shooting off their mouths.

Oh, yeah, compensation in our last contract and Skywest's last contract were practically identical (ERJ to CL-65). Skywest payscale revision only came out about the same time as CHQs contract expired.

 

[tedstriker]

This issue is hilarious. Maddog, I just read another post of yours about jumpseating that was very Mesa-friendly. Arent they the enemy too? My question is how did CHQ get to be the biggest problem in the industry? Our work rules are 10 times better than a lot of these companies. Whatever, I know we cant change peoples minds, Im fine with that. I think it would be nice if our pilot groups had a little more respect for eachother. And for all the Eagle pilots who keep blocking me on the radio, go ---- yourselves. Im totally serious, just go into the lav and work out some of that frustration.
By the way, I was one of the fired pilots. It sucked, but Im glad to be back with my old seniority, I work with some really outstanding people. Im about to become one of those 2nd year FOs responsible for ruining everyones lives.

 

[AWACoff]

SF340, if you believe that crew pay is the biggest hourly expense on an aircraft, you need to stop drinking management KoolAid. Secondly, the reason that places like Mesa and Chautaqua can underbid anyone is because they pay less (company wide), have less benefits, and spottier completion percentages. It takes money to have high completion rates. Aircraft have to be overly maintained. Moral has to be high enough that people give a rip. Like my grandpappy once told me...if it smells like it, looks like it, and pretty much sounds like it...it probably is. If you all wanted to get paid 25k a year, why not be assistant manager at Taco Bell? At least you can get a meal discount then...

 

[sf340flyer]

AWACoff, I was being sarcastic about the hourly rates. The crew wages are a small part of the hourly cost of an aircraft. We have prettty good benefits, and we have one of the highest completion factors out there. If you want to compare completion factors just let me know and I'll post them.

 

[ERJpusher]

Here's a response to another ignorant and undereducated pilot:

CHQ has all of the same benefits that AWAC has. We have medical, dental, life, retirement, disability, vacation, sick, and flex. In fact, we pay less for our medical than you ($15 self, $25 self and spouse, $35 family at CHQ--- $44 self, $75 self and spouse, $95 family at AWAC) and we have more coverage (100% at CHQ--- 80% at AWAC). We also have more life insurance (2X yearly earnings at CHQ--- $50000 for FOs and $75000 for CAs at AWAC). Anything else you want to say about our "poor" benefits?

How about completion percentages? We are running between 97 and 98% completion overall, which includes things that are beyond the power of the company (i.e. inclement weather, airport closures). One of our strongest marketing tools when entering codeshare agreements is our reliabilty.

I know that it takes a lot of money to maintain aircraft properly, and we do our part to allocate those funds appropriately. Our maintenance team has won the FAA Diamond Award 10 years running. I see that your maintenance team won the award back in 2000-- congratulations on that one. I can see how you think it may take more money than it actually does when your company sues the mechanics union for "illegal labor practices, slowdowns and unnecessary writeups." We don't have that problem here because our employees take pride in what we do and keep "moral" high, even while we are in contract negotiations. The customer is what this business is all about, and we still need to cater to their needs.

As far as bidding for codeshares, AWAC must not be bidding too high. You obviously were the lowest bidder on the Air Tran deal, a deal that we turned down as soon as it was offered.

I'm too old to drink Kool-aid, but I am old enough to get my facts straight before I go making random statements that I know nothing about. Don't believe everything you hear.

You seem to know a lot about the assistant manager job at Taco Bell, too.

 

[AWACoff]

On the Taco Bell coin, I worked there for 3.5 years to earn my PPL so yeah, I unfortunately know the TB thread all to well. CHQ does not have the same benefits as AWAC. There are similarities but we don't need to waste bandwidth going tit for tat (although I am really proud of the "missing, internment, prisoner or hostage of war" benefits we have...I'm joking, I hope I never have to use that portion of the contract). Suffice to say AWAC has a better overall bennies package (which obviously costs the company more). I did specifically say "less benefits" by the way, not "poor". As far as unneccasary write-ups go...if it's broken, it's broken. 121 airlines are not supposed to fix things when it's convenient. The Diamond Award isn't some magic award. It is based on a training doctrine, not actual mechanics' performance. 10 years running is still impressive and shows a commitment on your companies part. As far as the mechanics here, let's see you work on pay rates that are over 10 years old. Let's see you have high moral when a company promises one thing and does another. That's what happened to the mechanics and pilots (before my time here). Even though you doubt it, we still "take pride" in our job. On the AirTran deal, I wouldn't be too sure that we were the lowest bidder. I wasn't referring to CHQ when I mentioned on time percentage. I should have specified Mesa individually.

SF340, the semantics of this board did not allow me to understand your sarcasm. I apologize for not noticing it in the primary message. On a sidenote, did you hear the one about the guy's rooster? His friend's cat tried to eat it feet first. His friend's cat ended up with 2 feet of his cock in his friend's pu.....

 

[LAPD Airship]

This issue is hilarious. Maddog, I just read another post of yours about jumpseating that was very Mesa-friendly. Arent they the enemy too? My question is how did CHQ get to be the biggest problem in the industry? Our work rules are 10 times better than a lot of these companies. Whatever, I know we cant change peoples minds, Im fine with that. I think it would be nice if our pilot groups had a little more respect for eachother. And for all the Eagle pilots who keep blocking me on the radio, go ---- yourselves. Im totally serious, just go into the lav and work out some of that frustration.
By the way, I was one of the fired pilots. It sucked, but Im glad to be back with my old seniority, I work with some really outstanding people. Im about to become one of those 2nd year FOs responsible for ruining everyones lives.

I just thought I would chime on in here...Mesa and this supposed TA that they are muttering over is absolutely the worst thing that can happen to this industry. It is so horrifically lacking and pathetic that if it is voted in, will lower the bar further than the Comair contract failed to raise it. Closing down shop is a great threat, but how serious is he (JO) really?

Mesa IS the bottom dweller and IS the problem. Eagle ain't exactly helping things out either (16 Year Contract! WTF over) Our management is just salavating over this TA so they can come to us and say, "this is what the industry will bare." Do us all a favor, but most importantly do yourself one (MESA) - VOTE NO.

I am sititng here reading over the various contracts and CHQ isn't really that bad I suppose.

Additionally, I hear about all these guys that want 70, 90+ seat airplanes....good God people...we should all want these airplanes to be flown by Mainline carriers....I for one am happy that CAL pilots, although failing to control the numbers of our 50 seat jets, have at least scoped out 59+ seat aircraft.

This entire lack of Scope in the industry is a cancer that ALPA lacked the forethought and prowess to see coming and we all pay for that.

Does CHQ have pass privileges on Delta, or anyone else for that matter? Just curious, I don't know.