Chautauqua "Delta Connection" ?

robbo

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Chautauqua to take over Comairs operations out of Orlando. Delta said that the smaller ERJ is better suited for the market. They softend the blow to Comair by announcing plans to expand Comair into higher yeild markets. There have been numerous rumors about a new base in Dallas for Comair but this is the first time it has been announced by management. Dllas some time in 2003.
 

bvt1151

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what blow to comair? Comair is getting rid of emb-120's and not replacing them. Its been planned for a while that MCO would close. Bear in mind that Comair is the fastest growing regional right now. 26 new jets this year? not bad.
Comair is flying out of MCO, DFW, CVG, and ATL, not to mention an ORD-JFK and JFK-PHL. Slowly but surely the point to point value of the RJ is being learned.
 

RichO

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Comair and Dalles

Where did you find this information about the new base in Dallas sometime in 2003? Also, will people want to be based there or will it go junior?
 

Guam360

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It was the words from Fred Buttrel himself, President of Delta Connection, INC.

Dallas Base and 78 new RJ's by the end of 2004.
 

RJ Bum

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How long?

Does anyone know how long the Chautauqua contract is for? It may be just temporary until Comair gets the a/c and pilots, and after the ASA negotiations are over.
 

Guam360

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It is a 10 year contract, just like ACJet.
Comair will never fly Orlando again, Comair's growth is west and through SLC, Delta is not waiting for Comair to man up some planes to take back over in MCO.

Comair will fly from CVG to 5 or 6 cities in FL as it is now form CVG.

the answer is the ERJ is cheaper to operate in that market.
(E-135)
 

skydiverdriver

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Doesn't make sense. They claim the ERJ 37 seaters are better suited for the job than our 40 seaters. They say they are cheaper to operate. Okay, I'll buy that, but then, why did Comair buy the 40 seaters?
 

canadflyau

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any whipsaw worries?

Just a question from a pilot who is in the middle of whipsawing..

Is anyone worried that Delta Mgt. will start whipsawing Delta, ASA, COMAIR, SkyWest contracts. To me.. the more hub sharing and route overlapping that occurs is a set up to reduce problems that may occur during contract negotiations.. Especially when you got CHQ ACA "Delta Contract Connectors." Is there any worries of this? Any talk of one seniority list while the grass is green instead of screaming for it when you get into Section 6?

Yall have great companies.. please learn from the USAir / Express situation and preserve yourselves!
 

Patriot328

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Re: any whipsaw worries?

canadflyau said:
Just a question from a pilot who is in the middle of whipsawing..

Is anyone worried that Delta Mgt. will start whipsawing Delta, ASA, COMAIR, SkyWest contracts. To me.. the more hub sharing and route overlapping that occurs is a set up to reduce problems that may occur during contract negotiations.. Especially when you got CHQ ACA "Delta Contract Connectors." Is there any worries of this? Any talk of one seniority list while the grass is green instead of screaming for it when you get into Section 6?

Yall have great companies.. please learn from the USAir / Express situation and preserve yourselves!
I agree with our Canuk..

They should be very afraid of the whip-sawing, because it will happen. It's in management's interest to do so. Also, all this "who cares about MCO.. we're expanding west".. I sure as hell would care about orlando. Why didn't Comair get the embraers or use the 40 seaters? Sugar coat it however you want, but you've lost potential flying.


Patriot...
part of the saw....
 

RJ Bum

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The 40 seaters here at Comair IMO would not have any financial benifit over the 50 seater in florida market. They have the same payscale and vertualy no performance difference. Comair was theatening to buy another type, and to stay competitive, Bombardier cut Comair a deal on the 40 seaters (I heard a break of 7 million). Management has stated that the rest of our deliveries will be 70 and 50 seaters. Who knows if that had anything to do with CHQ.
 

sabreliner

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CHQ can undercut ASA and Comair for a couple of reasons. First, the 37 seat ERJ will be slightly cheaper to operate since it is a truly smaller airplane unlike the 40 seat CRJ, which just had 10 seats removed.

Second, they pay their employee groups peanut wages, and those groups have far fewer contractual protections than those at ASA and Comair have worked to attain. Payroll is a huge expense for an airline, and cutting that saves you a lot of money.
 

ATRCA

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QUOTE:

"Bear in mind that Comair is the fastest growing regional right now. 26 new jets this year? not bad."

CMR is growing, but it is not the fasted growing regional in the country nor is it the largest operator of RJ's in the country, in fact, if my numbers are correct CMR has about 90 RJ's. If thats correct than CMR is not even in the top 2 RJ users as far as fleet sized goes.

Im sure Dallas will be nice, but Im sad to see CMR go at MCO. I commute from MCO and have lots of CMR freinds who will now make the trek to CVG. Not a good situation for them.

Maybee we can all lend the CHQ guys a hand and support their attempt to better thier contract. Then they will cease to be the low cost alternative to the rest of us. Time will tell, but in the meand time get ready for the whipsaw. Its coming.
 
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Flyguy757

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"Maybee we can all lend the CHT guys a hand and support their attempt to better thier contract. Then they will cease to be the low cost alternative to the rest of us."

Amen Brett! However, I'm a relatively senior jet Capt at CHQ, and I tell you I am about ready to give up my seniority and join a regional pilot group that is worth .02 cents. I hope we get a great new contract, but my confidence is not strong in that will happen.
 

ATRCA

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Well we just exchanged openers with the company, however the economic stuff will follow later. Were looking for some improvements as well. Good luck, and if push comes to shove you'll have my full support. Not sure what I could do to help, but Im sure when the time comes we can all find some way to help you fellas out.

Keep us informed. See yah.
 

Skull-One

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Well, as a CHQ guy I have to say that I am happy to be joining a strong codeshare partner, especially with USAirways about to collapse... However, it does seem that in the long run, it's a detriment to RJ pilots. Delta learned not to put all its eggs in one basket after the Comair Strike. By diversifying its codeshares Delta is reducing the leverage each of these shares has in contract negotiations. So basically, Regional Pilots other than Comair will continue to be bottom-of-the-barrel wage- and duty protection-wise.

It's going to be nice to be partners with the guys and gals at Comair who took a stand to make things better for the regionals, but I feel a bit of guilt in the thought that we are somehow cutting your feet out from under you in Florida.
 

RichardFitzwell

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Would Chautauqua require a furloughed pilot to resign their senority number from another airline?
 

generaltso

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Is Chautauqua repainting some of their planes to Delta connection colors?
 

surplus1

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bvt1151 said:
what blow to comair? Comair is getting rid of emb-120's and not replacing them. Its been planned for a while that MCO would close. Bear in mind that Comair is the fastest growing regional right now. 26 new jets this year? not bad.
Comair is flying out of MCO, DFW, CVG, and ATL, not to mention an ORD-JFK and JFK-PHL. Slowly but surely the point to point value of the RJ is being learned.
I sure hope you''re not a Comair pilot writing that. If you are, please talk to your MEC leaders and get a dose of reality.

The jets that Comair is getting are not "new". They've been ordered long ago and the delivery schedule is simply being followed.

It doesn't take 22 Embraer jets to replace the 6 Brasilias that Comair has based in Florida and they will NOT be flying "just in the FL market". That's garbage.

Comair may get a new base in DFW. So what? There is no reason why Comair could not have stayed in MCO and still opened a new base in DFW. No reason that is, except the low bid from CHQ, which has little to do with the aircraft type and everything to do with the payroll.

This is nothing more than giving the flying to the "lowest bidder" and it is NOT the first time that Delta has done thiis. In '99 Delta gave BOS to TSA (which later fizzled as we knew it would) and signed a contract with ACA. Both of these "deals" undercut Comair and helped to depress the value of Comair stock making it easier for Delta to buy for less. Both TSA and ACA were the "lowest bidders". Now ACA has a base in what was Comair's CVG hub and CHQ is the new "lowest bidder" taking over the MCO hub.

Will the whipsaw begin (somebody asked)? Where have you been? It's alive and well and its everywhere. ACA and SKYW will under bid Air Wisconsin (they already have). ALG, PDT and PSA have been bidding against each other for years, and MESA, CHQ and TSA have under bid them for the jet feed. How did that happen? Mostly because the USAir mainline pilots made it happen. On top of that, they now have to deal with a new company, created by their own union, which will help them to lose their jobs and give up their contracts.

Butrell's "portfolio" concept is definitely an anti-labor move by Delta and cross flying the hubs will reduce everyone's bargaining leverage. Things will be difficult for ASA..

COEX thinks they're sitting pretty as negotiations begin. The "spin off" will take care of that. If they raise too much ruckus, Bethune will give his jets to Gulfstream or some other low bidder.

Mesaba is in shambles as NWA gives the flying to low bidder ExpressI and plays them against each other.

Eagle shrinks, with TSA and CHQ waiting in the wings and the AA pilots trying to take away Eagle's jets.

To ALL of you writing in this thread ..... what does it take to make you understand what's happening? You have mainline pilots and their union squeezing you from one side and management squeezing you from the other.

Smell the coffee guys. The subcontractors will always be the lowest bidders if they want to survive and the subsidiaries are all being shafted by their mainline "brothers", who aren't even smart enough to recognize that they're also shafting themselves in the process. While they're busily trying to "scope"" the RJs out of existence, they are also creating a growing group that before too long will be the "lowest bidders" for all their narrow body flying.

There's still a chance to stop it, but right now the Genie is out of the bottle and we're all in hot water. Its going to get much worse before it gets better.

As for all you regional pilots that don't care about standing up for your rights where you are, because you think you're going to get your mainline dream job tomorrow, think again. There are roughly 16,000 regional pilots today. How many new airplanes do you think the majors have to buy to recall all their furloughed pilots plus hire the regional pilots? Do the math.

I hate to have such a negative attitude, but its awful frustrating when so many of us don't seem to recognize what's happening, what caused it and who is the real obstacle to fixing it.

Surplus1
CMR
 
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