Chaos

Cowboy75

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I keep hearing something about Chaos. Is this a plan that USAPA has about getting a better contract for all US Airways pilots? I think it is simply a diversion to mask the failures of Cleary and gang.

Tell me USAPA cheerleaders, how is Chaos going to benefit the pilots of US Airways? How do you plan on conducting..........uh, chaos?

Good luck.
 

TWA Dude

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There will be no CHAOS. Absent a release from NMB it's illegal and in any case no Westies will participate. Just more useless chest-thumping from the East.
 

Cowboy75

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There will be no CHAOS. Absent a release from NMB it's illegal and in any case no Westies will participate. Just more useless chest-thumping from the East.
That noise I was hearing was chest thumping. I think I have heard it before.

YAWN
 

Tweaker

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All above correct

Additionally, it is something that is only permissable after an impass has been declared. It is the equivilent of a strike, but much more fun, while being much less financially harmful to the participants.

US Airways is nowhere near this point in negotiations, and it would be considered an illegal job action.
 

Raoul Duke

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keep in mind that in this ecomony the company could replace each striking worker on a one off basis. It would essentially lock out specific individuals and replace them on the spot. Don't think that any company wouldn't jump at that opportunity.
 

AWACoff

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That's why part of the new contract is a reinstatement of all fired strikers aka "hostages" with full longevity and seniority. Additionally, while you are a hostage, the union pays you and you become a full time strike assistant.
 

Cowboy75

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I appreciate the responses. Bottom line, I think the only CHAOS we have seen is the chaos USAPA created for the pilot group.
 

Captain X

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CHAOS (properly executed) seems to have proven historically more effective, both on a cost-basis, and threat basis than a full-scale strike.
 

Carl S.

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USAPA is trying to perform "K-Y", not the similar sounding chaos! The screwing of "Traitors" at every corner for the last 17 months!
 

Draginass

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Never walk out of the cockpit on a general strike. You lose control. A chaos campaign is much harder for the execs to deal with.
 

wms

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This is the only chaos you'll see at USSAirways.

By the way, there was a successful chaos AUG/SEP 2007.
 

PCL_128

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Additionally, it is something that is only permissable after an impass has been declared.
Most labor attorneys will tell you that it's not even legal after a release, it's just never been challenged in court. As soon as a pilot group tries it instead of FAs, you can bet it will be challenged, and an injunction will soon result, rendering your CHAOS activities useless.
 

Captain X

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Most labor attorneys will tell you that it's not even legal after a release, it's just never been challenged in court. As soon as a pilot group tries it instead of FAs, you can bet it will be challenged, and an injunction will soon result, rendering your CHAOS activities useless.
PCL,

Assuming a release to self-help by the NMB, why would that be? I don't understand how the "type" of job action matters if it is carried out under lawful conditions.

I have never heard that, even from ALPA attorneys and advisors that assisted with SP(s)C ops I've worked on in the past. In fact, in preliminary discussions, a CHAOS-type strike was one of the strategies we were packaging for our MEC.

Just curious.
:)
 

PCL_128

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PCL,

Assuming a release to self-help by the NMB, why would that be? I don't understand how the "type" of job action matters if it is carried out under lawful conditions.
A judge would likely take the intent of the RLA into account when faced with this situation. The entire purpose of the RLA is to lead to dispute resolution rather than job actions. Self help is to be as difficult as possible so neither side is able to bring unequal force against the other. That way, both sides are encouraged to reach an agreement rather than continue self help. With CHAOS, self help brings little pain for labor since they continue to receive a paycheck, but much pain against the company, because everyone starts booking away to avoid the CHAOS activities. This gives labor far more power than management, rather than it being equal, which violates the intent of the Act.

I have never heard that, even from ALPA attorneys and advisors that assisted with SP(s)C ops I've worked on in the past. In fact, in preliminary discussions, a CHAOS-type strike was one of the strategies we were packaging for our MEC.

Just curious.
:)
If you're still doing ALPA work, I can give you some names of attorneys to talk to. Send me a PM. You have to talk to the guys in Legal, because the Contract Administrators from the Representation Department aren't the experts in this kind of stuff. In-depth legal interpretations of the RLA fall under the Legal Departmnet.
 
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