Champion (F/E) or Amerijet (F/O)?

[Cody_V]

Just a general poll to see if faced w/ the choice who is the better.

 

[B737Dvr]

neither!!!!!

Hey if you really fly an RJ, then god damn it stay in it! that is current EFIS equipment. yes it is an RJ, but trust me unless your company goes ch11 and you have no choice then go with champion. only because that company is better than the tiolet that amerijet is. there is a thread in the cargo section that will slap you to reality with regards to amerijet. champion would be the lesser of two evils. not a knock on anyone at champion, but if you are flying newer equipment i dont see the logic to going to fly something that hardly anyone flies anymore. now unless its a choice between unemployment or home depot.....then go to msp!

 

[Cody_V]

Thanks for the info, unfortunatley I flew for Ind. Air and well, you know the story. Now I fly for a 135 bottom feeder and I fear for my ticket. I really don't want to start over in the regionals since this situation presents itself an opportunity to get into narrow bodies and besides, I wouldn't know which one to go to with confidence.
Thanks again for the info.

 

[BengalsFan]

go to a fractional?!?!

 

[Junkflyer]

Go to Amerijet only if you like to crap in plastic bags.

 

[labbats]

Paper or plastic?

 

[gringo]

Don't know Champion per se, but I can tell you this much- ANY and EVERY Miami-based cargo company is a scumbag operation, and you'll end up being pretty miserable over there. Amerijet has a reputation of being one of the scummier operations.

I thought I'd give it a shot, but after experiencing first hand how absolutely s#itty life gets in that dump, I myself am heading back to the regionals. All the money in the world dosen't help when you're surrounded by miserable washouts and scabs, which I'd say makes up the vast majority of the flight crews down there. Not all (there are some exceptional people down there) but most.

Besides, after clearing clearing Customs in Miami a few times, you'll wish you could just put a bullet in your brain.

But then again, if you're of latin descent, and English is your second language, it might not be so bad... it's a huge good ol boys club.

 

[Cody_V]

I've tried to tear myself from the airline industry and am considering the fractionals, I am having a hard time staying away from it all. I think that Champion maybe the winner in this decision. When it comes down to it, Champion is like a regional that flies 727's. Even in the interview they said it's not a place to retire at, but in a few years get you some place you can. There is also the prosepect of A320's which could bring about better contracts. Who knows, this whole aviation industry is a bit of a crap shoot, if I analyzed every company out there, I'd probably just quit altogether!

 

[Scube3]

I have a few friends that got their first "jet" job as an F.O. coming from a 135 turboprop operation, and they don't hate it. And the pay is decent. Now, there is a lot of work. They are not complaining. One of them got upgraded within a year to a captain slot.
In the other side, I don't know anybody in Champion but if you do a search on Champion Air, You won't find anything positive.
Make sure you do a search in flightinfo before you adventure in that direction.

Scube

 

[big_al]

champion getting A320s???

 

[Cody_V]

Thanks for the info Scube. The rumor at Champion and it was mentioned in the interview that the Airbus is coming. Also, I friend of mine knows a guy who is an Airbus sim instructor who was called by Champion for a job training in the near future. Champion's leases are coming up on some of their 727's so considering the operating cost versuses the bus, it makes financial sense. Besides, the aircraft they are looking at aren't new from Airbus, so they maybe able to work some favorable lease rates. According to Champion though, they will keep a handful of 72's around for the NBA contract since the teams like the 72 better.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

I'm in training at Champion now and I have a few friends that have been here a long time. First of all, take what you read on here, always, with a grain of salt. Everyone's perception of the same company is different. Champion isn't the Garden of Eden, but it's certainly not the worst place on the face of the earth either. As for the A320 deal, don't bank on that happening any time soon. The CEO came to class last week and basically said that we won't be getting them in the near future. We need a block of 10+ serial order aircraft before we purchase. Needless to say, those criteria are non-existant right now, in this market. Champion is a good place to work if you need a flying job at this point. Really nothing more, nothing less.

 

[IHateMgmt]

Champion getting Airbuses... seriously, anybody know how long that rumor has been going on? Like Workin' Stiff said, don't count on it in your lifetime. Besides if they did, 72's are three pilot crew, Airbus is two... which means you and the rest of the bottem third get the boot. Be careful what you wish for. My point is that if you go to Champion expecting new Airbuses, you're gonna be dissapointed. Your attitude will make a huge difference in your QOL.

 

[Cody_V]

Your right. To be honest a chance to fly the 727 is more appealing seeing as they are becoming a rare species. The more important thing, I believe, is that at least it is talk in the right direction ie growth and expansion. I worked in the industry when the only rumors were not if there are going to be furloughs, but how many. It's nice to see that there is a glimmer of hope and growth on the horizon for Champion. As far as the attitude part, you are absolutley correct! Also, perspective. If you could fly one week for the place I am at now, just about any 121 operator would be a god-send.
Thanks for the replies.

 

[B737Dvr]

growth and positive attitude????

HA! When I was in ground school at my current company the DO came down to give us the "pep chat" and said that with the way the company is growing, that we'd all be captains within 7-8 months! 3.8years later........I am still kicking myself for not betting against it, when everything in me said, YEAH RIGHT!....it was just that at the training pay......i couldnt afford to bet lol!

point is.....even when companies are hiring with a new hire school in session......trust me......they can still shut down and furlough just like that!

 

[IHateMgmt]

HA! When I was in ground school at my current company the DO came down to give us the "pep chat" and said that with the way the company is growing, that we'd all be captains within 7-8 months! 3.8years later........I am still kicking myself for not betting against it, when everything in me said, YEAH RIGHT!....it was just that at the training pay......i couldnt afford to bet lol!

point is.....even when companies are hiring with a new hire school in session......trust me......they can still shut down and furlough just like that!

While you've got a point, (obviously the airlines are anything but predictable these days) I think Cody at least has his head in the right place.

Cody, I am in a place not that dissimilar from yours... furloughed from a regional, now humpin' freight in a ratty piston twin. So I know where you're coming from. My attitude is that being furloughed is the best thing that could have happened to me. I have a lot of (better than regional airline) potential at places I would have never looked had I not been furloughed. There is one huge negative about Champion that you can't get away from; they are controlled by NWA. Life has been much better for me since I have been out from their little finger. Keep your options open, and think outside the box. Maybe you will find something outside the airline industry that will be refreshing too.

 

[Cody_V]

I felt the same way when I was furloughed. I was so sick of the gloom and doom of the airlines. After spending about a year and half outside, I missed the structure, sop, and the operating system of the airlines. It's the grass is always greener syndrome maybe, but I am still considering the fractionals and even independent corporate work. My next new thread maybe Champion vs Flexjet! A buddy of mine at Flex claims they will be calling in July for an interview, but who knows. It really helps to have the opinions and info of pilots on this sight to play the devils advocate or provoke ideas and considerations I have missed, so thanks a lot for the replies. To sum up the way I am approaching the Champion endevor is cautious optomism. I have to go into this with a positive mind set while at the same time be grounded in the reality of the industry I choose to work in. Any other way, and I think I would make myself miserable. Bottom line, I love aviation, truly, and despite the moving, furloughs, and other bs, I can't seem to tear myself away from this industry. Punching through an overcast layer on a cold winters morn, skimming the top of the cloud deck as the sun peaks over the horizon, warm cup of coffee in hand, fresh USA Today by myside; nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile!

 

[IHateMgmt]

Best of luck, Cody... keep me posted.

 

[federico]

Even if CHAMPION does qet A320 theyll furlough the senior 727 guy and hire a current A320 guy. Stay away from 121 supp

 

[Cody_V]

But Champion is ALPA. They couldn't do that even if they wanted to. Besides, like some of the Champion guys were saying it will be quite a while before the A320's come onto the property if they do, so I would hopefully have a little seniority before any significant number of them appear.

 

[festus]

Classes

The HR lady said that they were hiring for an august and oct class and that was all for now. Anyone hear any other information?

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Yep, that's it for the time being... But people are always leaving. So things can change relatively quickly. The attrition in the FO/FE ranks is quite heavy...

 

[glasspilot]

Just caught this thread and thought I'd weigh in. I'm the Amerijet FO from the cargo thread speaking of the wonders of Amerijet. Here is a recap and some new bullets outlining the experience that is 121 supplimental, Miami style...brought to you by Amerijet;

1. No lavs in any airplanes
2. Promised 60K per year. Get around 35K.
3. Promised upgrade in 3 to 6 months. Not gonna see it for years.
4. Required to print my own Jepps at my expense.
5. Health insurance costs a little over $700 per month. That's not a typo!
6. The atmosphere there is very captain orientated. FOs could never have anything to contribute. (not just me. other FOs from other airlines have noticed this as well.)
7. No schedule. You get a bid period with 8 hard days off (which you bid for). After that every work day is a reserve day. You wait by the phone and if they call you you go fly regardless of seniority. If you get called, go to the airport and don't fly for whatever reason you don't get paid. (just your 60hr. guarentee)
8. Per Diem is $1.25 per hour.
9. You can't fly over 60 hours. They stop schedualing you at 60.
10. Training is horrendous. GOS consists of a clueless instructor reading the manual off the wall. Seriously, they plug a laptop into a projector and project the manual onto the wall and then you all read together.
11. Instructor doesn't know material. Thought exemption 3585 applied to takeoff alternates. (it doesn't)
12. Systems training isn't too bad, however you get no manual and the "internet" manual is for a 727-100. They don't have any 100s, just 200s. They justify this saying they "could get the 100s again someday".
13. No read files from the chief pilot, just e-mails that cannot be tracked or retrieved.
14. Bunch of scab captains. Mostly ex-eastern guys who crossed the line and now preach of their glory days at eastern. (leaving out the scab bit of course)
15. One of these "scabs" had an engine failure on the takeoff roll. Aborted the takeoff and then decided to to run up the vibrating engine to see at what N1 it vibrated the most. After that he taxied back to the gate with just one of the three engines. Can you guess which engine he used to taxi back? You guessed it! The only one that was vibrating.
16. Some CAs think when Departure tells you "best forward speed" on the climb that means accelerating to 335 kts at 6,000 ft.
17. Some CAs think when your "heavy" (ie, 197K) for take off it's "very important to retract the flaps fast". Doesn't seem to matter that your 20 to 25 kts slow for the next flap speed. (read they try to kill us innocent FOs frequently)
18. You earn 1.25 hours a sick time per MONTH.
19. If you call in sick you burn 2.5 hour for that day.
20. If you call in sick with no sick time they dock you 5 hours from your guarentee.
21. If you call in sick within 2.5 hours of departure then they dock you 5 hours from your guarentee.
22. If you call in sick with no sick time your sick time counter goes into the negitive. At 1.25 hours per month earned it could take a while to get back to even.
23. They have furloughed pilots on the street.
24. They have a new hire class in progress.
25. 23 and 24 are both happening RIGHT NOW.
26. DMIs get "fixed" and immeadatly re-written up.
27. There are no over nights (very few). That means if you go to South America you're coming back that day...with stops. Makes for long days. 17 to 18 hours is not uncommon.
28. If you stay at a hotel you have to pay yourself and get the company to pay you back. Cab rides are the same.

God, I know there's more, I just can't think of any more. I'm sure that if every pilot at Amerijet with a resume out got hired tomorrow the airline would shut down. Only the Eastern scabs would be left. Speaking of shutting down, ever day I go to work I'm amazed the FAA hasen't shut us down.

Good luck on the Champion vs. Amerijet decission.

 

[Rick1128]

Just caught this thread and thought I'd weigh in. I'm the Amerijet FO from the cargo thread speaking of the wonders of Amerijet. Here is a recap and some new bullets outlining the experience that is 121 supplimental, Miami style...brought to you by Amerijet;

1. No lavs in any airplanes
2. Promised 60K per year. Get around 35K.
3. Promised upgrade in 3 to 6 months. Not gonna see it for years.
4. Required to print my own Jepps at my expense.
5. Health insurance costs a little over $700 per month. That's not a typo!
6. The atmosphere there is very captain orientated. FOs could never have anything to contribute. (not just me. other FOs from other airlines have noticed this as well.)
7. No schedule. You get a bid period with 8 hard days off (which you bid for). After that every work day is a reserve day. You wait by the phone and if they call you you go fly regardless of seniority. If you get called, go to the airport and don't fly for whatever reason you don't get paid. (just your 60hr. guarentee)
8. Per Diem is $1.25 per hour.
9. You can't fly over 60 hours. They stop schedualing you at 60.
10. Training is horrendous. GOS consists of a clueless instructor reading the manual off the wall. Seriously, they plug a laptop into a projector and project the manual onto the wall and then you all read together.
11. Instructor doesn't know material. Thought exemption 3585 applied to takeoff alternates. (it doesn't)
12. Systems training isn't too bad, however you get no manual and the "internet" manual is for a 727-100. They don't have any 100s, just 200s. They justify this saying they "could get the 100s again someday".
13. No read files from the chief pilot, just e-mails that cannot be tracked or retrieved.
14. Bunch of scab captains. Mostly ex-eastern guys who crossed the line and now preach of their glory days at eastern. (leaving out the scab bit of course)
15. One of these "scabs" had an engine failure on the takeoff roll. Aborted the takeoff and then decided to to run up the vibrating engine to see at what N1 it vibrated the most. After that he taxied back to the gate with just one of the three engines. Can you guess which engine he used to taxi back? You guessed it! The only one that was vibrating.
16. Some CAs think when Departure tells you "best forward speed" on the climb that means accelerating to 335 kts at 6,000 ft.
17. Some CAs think when your "heavy" (ie, 197K) for take off it's "very important to retract the flaps fast". Doesn't seem to matter that your 20 to 25 kts slow for the next flap speed. (read they try to kill us innocent FOs frequently)
18. You earn 1.25 hours a sick time per MONTH.
19. If you call in sick you burn 2.5 hour for that day.
20. If you call in sick with no sick time they dock you 5 hours from your guarentee.
21. If you call in sick within 2.5 hours of departure then they dock you 5 hours from your guarentee.
22. If you call in sick with no sick time your sick time counter goes into the negitive. At 1.25 hours per month earned it could take a while to get back to even.
23. They have furloughed pilots on the street.
24. They have a new hire class in progress.
25. 23 and 24 are both happening RIGHT NOW.
26. DMIs get "fixed" and immeadatly re-written up.
27. There are no over nights (very few). That means if you go to South America you're coming back that day...with stops. Makes for long days. 17 to 18 hours is not uncommon.
28. If you stay at a hotel you have to pay yourself and get the company to pay you back. Cab rides are the same.

God, I know there's more, I just can't think of any more. I'm sure that if every pilot at Amerijet with a resume out got hired tomorrow the airline would shut down. Only the Eastern scabs would be left. Speaking of shutting down, ever day I go to work I'm amazed the FAA hasen't shut us down.

Good luck on the Champion vs. Amerijet decission.

I glad to see that things haven't changed at F*** YOU! Jet.

 

[Cody_V]

Thanks for all the info on Amerijet. Wow! Hey workin' stiff, are you a former Mesaba pilot? If so I think I got a buddy I work with that knows you and thanks for the Saab stickers they turned out awesome! If not, just disregard that last comment. Also, if you have the time I would love to get your full opinion on working at Champion. Thanks a lot!

 

[glasspilot]

Last week: Thread topic: Amerijet vs. Champion...


This week: ...have the time I would love to get your full opinion on working at Champion.

Nice. I see my work is done here.

 

[Thedude]

Even if CHAMPION does qet A320 theyll furlough the senior 727 guy and hire a current A320 guy. Stay away from 121 supp

Once again Freddie, you dont know what you are talking about. MG is ALPA and has a thing called a contract. So none of that furloughing guys out of senority. Just go back in your hole and have a nice day in your light twin.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Thanks for all the info on Amerijet. Wow! Hey workin' stiff, are you a former Mesaba pilot? If so I think I got a buddy I work with that knows you and thanks for the Saab stickers they turned out awesome! If not, just disregard that last comment. Also, if you have the time I would love to get your full opinion on working at Champion. Thanks a lot!

Yeah, man! I sure am! I left at the end of May. Send me a PM and I'll fill ya in on the whole scoop!