Cutlass1287
Cup
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2004
- Posts
- 113
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User546
The Ultimate Show Stopper
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2004
- Posts
- 1,958
On my off-time I do freelance flight instructing, and I get $25 an hour. Depending on my schedule, I can fly anywhere from 5-10 hours a week.
I work at an uncontrolled field in a small town, and there is about 5 or 6 flight instructors, but most of them work full time at other jobs, and with my leisure schedule, I usually "fill in" for other instructors that can't make it, but I also have two full time students.
I'm just glad I have a better paying flying gig, or I could never make a living on flight instructing!
I work at an uncontrolled field in a small town, and there is about 5 or 6 flight instructors, but most of them work full time at other jobs, and with my leisure schedule, I usually "fill in" for other instructors that can't make it, but I also have two full time students.
I'm just glad I have a better paying flying gig, or I could never make a living on flight instructing!
I just visited a flight school yesterday, and spoke with some folks there. Their flight instructors average about 38,000 yearly, in Robinson R-22's. Most aren't lasting a year getting a thousand hours of helicopter experience in less than that, and moving on to a turbine position flying off-shore work on oil rigs. One of the instructors was interviewing yesterday afternoon while I was there.
A lot of instructors starve, but needn't do so.
A few years back I stopped by a FBO in Tucson to purchase some small item. A flight instructor met me for a few moments, and asked questions about moving up, about his career. I gave him a few places to call, some counsel and was just about to leave, when I discovered that the owner of the facility has moved up behind me and was listening. Neither of us had seen him.
He screamed at me. Told me I was trying to put him out of business. Filling his instructor's head with ideas, with stars. Told me I was trying to steal away his help. He apparently truly believed that the pittance the instructor was making was a Godsend, that the instructor was lucky to be getting that paycheck. Garbage.
The flight school I mentioned charges, I believe fifty dollars an hour for ground. After meeting with some of their personnel, I don't disagree that their worth it. Some good people with a good program. If kids ask me, I'll recommend them.
Later that afternoon, I visited another school in an affluent part of town. This school had flashier brochures, big model helicopters up front, brightly painted walls. Their chief instructor was an idiot. He didn't know the regulations. I approached him as a student, one seeking information, and he couldn't hardly answer a question. He had some really bizarre ideas, once got up to go in the other room to ask a designated examiner questions. He had no clue. Tried to bamboozle me, sell me on some really sappy falsehoods. I'm sure that some students buy into it. I'm sure they overcharge, and that their studnt base doesn't stick around.
The difference between those two schools, selling the same product in the same aircraft, was legion. One had well paid instructors, happy instructors, and happy students who turned around and worked there as instructors. The other frequently wouldn't hire their own students, and didn't seem to be able to provide anything of value to the student...surely they can't do any better for their own people.
The point? The values and benifits paid and received as an instructor and teacher vary with your location. You can choose how lucrative you want it to be. You can starve on five hundred a month, or you can go all out and build a student base for a reputable school. Don't settle for working for anybody. The fact that when I left the FBO in Tucson with the owner still standing and in posession of his own teeth was owing to my own generosity; he'd have had it coming. I felt bad for the instructor, I hope he was able to find someone better.
There is better out there. I've see it. I've done it. You can settle for a few dollars an hour, but don't. Lowering the bar for yourself and everyone else doesn't help you. An instructor who can teach provides a valueable service; any reasonable soul seeking worthy instruction is willing to lay out the expense necessary to afford it. Be worthy, make more. Make what you're worth.
A lot of instructors starve, but needn't do so.
A few years back I stopped by a FBO in Tucson to purchase some small item. A flight instructor met me for a few moments, and asked questions about moving up, about his career. I gave him a few places to call, some counsel and was just about to leave, when I discovered that the owner of the facility has moved up behind me and was listening. Neither of us had seen him.
He screamed at me. Told me I was trying to put him out of business. Filling his instructor's head with ideas, with stars. Told me I was trying to steal away his help. He apparently truly believed that the pittance the instructor was making was a Godsend, that the instructor was lucky to be getting that paycheck. Garbage.
The flight school I mentioned charges, I believe fifty dollars an hour for ground. After meeting with some of their personnel, I don't disagree that their worth it. Some good people with a good program. If kids ask me, I'll recommend them.
Later that afternoon, I visited another school in an affluent part of town. This school had flashier brochures, big model helicopters up front, brightly painted walls. Their chief instructor was an idiot. He didn't know the regulations. I approached him as a student, one seeking information, and he couldn't hardly answer a question. He had some really bizarre ideas, once got up to go in the other room to ask a designated examiner questions. He had no clue. Tried to bamboozle me, sell me on some really sappy falsehoods. I'm sure that some students buy into it. I'm sure they overcharge, and that their studnt base doesn't stick around.
The difference between those two schools, selling the same product in the same aircraft, was legion. One had well paid instructors, happy instructors, and happy students who turned around and worked there as instructors. The other frequently wouldn't hire their own students, and didn't seem to be able to provide anything of value to the student...surely they can't do any better for their own people.
The point? The values and benifits paid and received as an instructor and teacher vary with your location. You can choose how lucrative you want it to be. You can starve on five hundred a month, or you can go all out and build a student base for a reputable school. Don't settle for working for anybody. The fact that when I left the FBO in Tucson with the owner still standing and in posession of his own teeth was owing to my own generosity; he'd have had it coming. I felt bad for the instructor, I hope he was able to find someone better.
There is better out there. I've see it. I've done it. You can settle for a few dollars an hour, but don't. Lowering the bar for yourself and everyone else doesn't help you. An instructor who can teach provides a valueable service; any reasonable soul seeking worthy instruction is willing to lay out the expense necessary to afford it. Be worthy, make more. Make what you're worth.
flyifrvfr
CFII/MEI right seater
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2004
- Posts
- 495
I was talking to a pilot who wanted to get his instrument rating and basically was interviewing me as a CFII. I told him that I could bring him up to speed flying IFR rather quickly. I informed him that since we would not be going through the flight school where I teach, the price would be $40.00 per hour.
He asked me how busy I was and I told him that I wasn't very busy. At that time I had two students. The pilot asked me if I could give him block time, in the area of 10 hours for $250.00. I told him I could give him block time of 10 hours for $400.00. He said that is still $40.00 per hour.
I told him that if he went to a flight school, they only give block time for the airplane,the instructor rate is what it is $40.00. He asked me how much money I was making per week as a CFI. I was honest with him and I told him about $50.00 per week. He tried to use this info as a bargain chip. He said wouldn't you rather have $250.00 bucks right now and only have to work 10 hours for it. I told him that if I did that, I would not only be cutting the throats of the other freelance CFI's, I would be cutting my own throat as well.
My time as a freelance CFII/MEI is worht the area rate of $40.00 per hour. I charge that rate no matter what I do. BFR, ICP,ground, you name it. My time and knowledge is the only thing I have to sell. I know it is worth the going rate, and trying to short change me is an insult.
I could have told him that I will give him $25.00 worth of instruction per hour, but I value my believes more than that.
I also recently did a BFR for a gentleman. He asked me what I charged and I told him $40.00 per hour. We flew for one hour and ground for one hour and after we finished he asked how much. I told him 2 hours at $40.00 per hour is $80.00. He said I remember two years ago, the price was $50.00. I said that was two years ago and told him agian $80.00. He said here is a $100.00 and this is my donation to the starving CFI fund. I accepted his money and he said he will call me again in 2 years. He knew he got his money's worth.
He asked me how busy I was and I told him that I wasn't very busy. At that time I had two students. The pilot asked me if I could give him block time, in the area of 10 hours for $250.00. I told him I could give him block time of 10 hours for $400.00. He said that is still $40.00 per hour.
I told him that if he went to a flight school, they only give block time for the airplane,the instructor rate is what it is $40.00. He asked me how much money I was making per week as a CFI. I was honest with him and I told him about $50.00 per week. He tried to use this info as a bargain chip. He said wouldn't you rather have $250.00 bucks right now and only have to work 10 hours for it. I told him that if I did that, I would not only be cutting the throats of the other freelance CFI's, I would be cutting my own throat as well.
My time as a freelance CFII/MEI is worht the area rate of $40.00 per hour. I charge that rate no matter what I do. BFR, ICP,ground, you name it. My time and knowledge is the only thing I have to sell. I know it is worth the going rate, and trying to short change me is an insult.
I could have told him that I will give him $25.00 worth of instruction per hour, but I value my believes more than that.
I also recently did a BFR for a gentleman. He asked me what I charged and I told him $40.00 per hour. We flew for one hour and ground for one hour and after we finished he asked how much. I told him 2 hours at $40.00 per hour is $80.00. He said I remember two years ago, the price was $50.00. I said that was two years ago and told him agian $80.00. He said here is a $100.00 and this is my donation to the starving CFI fund. I accepted his money and he said he will call me again in 2 years. He knew he got his money's worth.
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I make $16/hr doing 30-35 hrs a week. Sometimes more. 5 days a week, and I am available 8am - 5pm with an hour lunch. This is at a 12-airplane pt. 141 school. Benefits are included.
My last two jobs were crap. First one was $20/hr but in the northeast and I had to shovel the airplanes out for free. Second job was $12/hr - but in Florida where CFI's are a dime a dozen.
Go with an established 141 school with a large student base. It's worth it. I wished I wouldn't of d!cked around before coming here.
~wheelsup
My last two jobs were crap. First one was $20/hr but in the northeast and I had to shovel the airplanes out for free. Second job was $12/hr - but in Florida where CFI's are a dime a dozen.
Go with an established 141 school with a large student base. It's worth it. I wished I wouldn't of d!cked around before coming here.
~wheelsup
SiuDude
Internet tough guy
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2004
- Posts
- 969
After instructing in a large city and competing with several CFIs for about $20 an hour, I moved to a small town where I'm the only CFI. Currently work about 14 hours a week at $25 an hour, but business is picking up. Plus this gives me a chance to fly many privately owned high performance singles based on the field (BFR, IPCs, IFR cross countries in "actual"). You've gotta be willing to go where the jobs are.
Have a financial plan
If you are just starting out expect to make from $15 - $25 an hour working for a pt.141 flight school. Most instructors will have their best months (building time/making money) in their first 6 months of instructing. After that most will become burned out. Then they start flying less and less. Paychecks obviously get smaller and they find themselves stuck in rut.
So, set goals for yourself. Get all of your instructor ratings asap. Try to fly a certain # of hours per month, say...60+. While your doing all of this remember to keep studying. Continously improve your teaching abilities. An instructor with excellent teaching abilities will have a waiting list of future students and can charge premium rates ($40+ per hr.free lance). An instructor with poor teaching ability will always be looking for work.
If you can't live on these wages try finding a decent part time job that will still allow you enough time to instruct 25-40 hours a month.
Just remember to have fun, teach well, and maintain your QOL.
If you are just starting out expect to make from $15 - $25 an hour working for a pt.141 flight school. Most instructors will have their best months (building time/making money) in their first 6 months of instructing. After that most will become burned out. Then they start flying less and less. Paychecks obviously get smaller and they find themselves stuck in rut.
So, set goals for yourself. Get all of your instructor ratings asap. Try to fly a certain # of hours per month, say...60+. While your doing all of this remember to keep studying. Continously improve your teaching abilities. An instructor with excellent teaching abilities will have a waiting list of future students and can charge premium rates ($40+ per hr.free lance). An instructor with poor teaching ability will always be looking for work.
If you can't live on these wages try finding a decent part time job that will still allow you enough time to instruct 25-40 hours a month.
Just remember to have fun, teach well, and maintain your QOL.
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I still get folks wanting me to lower my rate. I invite them to go elsewhere. I don't have time to even dicker with them anymore. It's a waste of my time and I have too much to do. If they want cheap, there's two instructors on the field that are advertising flight instruction for free.
Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein
Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein
I love to teach flying. It is satisfying to my soul to see someone progress and develop their professionalism through my guided hands. I can honestly say it's the best job I have ever had (my last two jobs paid minimum wage and were not fun).
Financially, though, I have no good news to report. Last week I logged 1.9 hours of flight instruction given. There are some weeks that I can get over 10 hours. I get paid $16/hour. This is my only paying job. It's feast or famine.
It's sad for me to think about. I pay $30,000 out of my own pocket, train for years, and in turn I get to make peanuts for more years to come? No flight instructor is in it for the money. I think it is a combination of building hours and/or a love for aviation. If I just wanted to make lots of money I would go be a truck driver and quadruple my salary. I heard of one person that lived in his car/van/whatever while he was an instructor. Some big name flight schools even have the nerve to pay their instructors $8/hour. I have heard of 4 instructors living in one apartment just to make ends meet. I knew a flight school in TX that actually paid their instructors $6/hour, no lie!
These stories are probably an exaggeration of the stereotypical CFI job. Some CFI's are charging as much as $75/hour straight into their pocket. It is not generally considered to be a career job, but it can be enjoyable and a decent amout of money can be made.
Financially, though, I have no good news to report. Last week I logged 1.9 hours of flight instruction given. There are some weeks that I can get over 10 hours. I get paid $16/hour. This is my only paying job. It's feast or famine.
It's sad for me to think about. I pay $30,000 out of my own pocket, train for years, and in turn I get to make peanuts for more years to come? No flight instructor is in it for the money. I think it is a combination of building hours and/or a love for aviation. If I just wanted to make lots of money I would go be a truck driver and quadruple my salary. I heard of one person that lived in his car/van/whatever while he was an instructor. Some big name flight schools even have the nerve to pay their instructors $8/hour. I have heard of 4 instructors living in one apartment just to make ends meet. I knew a flight school in TX that actually paid their instructors $6/hour, no lie!
These stories are probably an exaggeration of the stereotypical CFI job. Some CFI's are charging as much as $75/hour straight into their pocket. It is not generally considered to be a career job, but it can be enjoyable and a decent amout of money can be made.
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HMR
I Live by the River.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2001
- Posts
- 1,048
Cutlass1287,
Not long ago, I taught at a west coast Pt. 61 school. I flew 80-100 hrs. and taught around 80 hrs. of ground per month for $20/hr. working 6 days per week. I gave just over 1,000 hrs dual, 500 of which was multi (seriously) and then left for a Pt.135 company flying King Airs 24/7. I supplemented my meager charter pilot income by instructing rich guys making the Baron to King Air transition for $50-$100/hr.
Now I have a related gripe (all hardworking, positive-attitude CFI's can skip this part): Currently, I fly a Pt.91 corporate jet. I don't need to supplement my income anymore, have lots of free time and really want to go fly something that burns 100LL. Last week I went down to my local airport (SoCal area) and started making the rounds of the flight schools looking for a CFI with whom I could do some flying.
School #1: (Group of flight instructors standing around outside in flight school uniforms)
ME: Hi! Do you instruct here?
THEM: (annoyed that I interrupted conversation) Yeah. (they go back to talking)
ME: Who should I talk to about getting some instruction?
THEM: (pointing) The office is down there.
ME: Thank You!
THEM: Uh-huh.
(I'm Inside flight school office talking to nice woman at the desk)
ME: I'd like to sign up for a lesson.
WOMAN: I'm sorry, there are no instructors here right now. Would you like to leave your number?
School #2: (nobody in the office but I spy a young CFI sending a student out for a pre-flight)
ME: Hi! Do you instruct here?
CFI: Yes.
ME: Can I ask you a few questions about getting current in a 172?
CFI: I'm in the middle of a lesson right now, but here's a rate sheet.
(I peruse the display cases while the CFI spends 10 minutes talking to one of his friends who just walked in)
School #3: More of the same.
What's the deal? I brushed my teeth. My girlfriend says I look nice. I always bought my CFI's lunch. Why can't I get a flight lesson?
Not long ago, I taught at a west coast Pt. 61 school. I flew 80-100 hrs. and taught around 80 hrs. of ground per month for $20/hr. working 6 days per week. I gave just over 1,000 hrs dual, 500 of which was multi (seriously) and then left for a Pt.135 company flying King Airs 24/7. I supplemented my meager charter pilot income by instructing rich guys making the Baron to King Air transition for $50-$100/hr.
Now I have a related gripe (all hardworking, positive-attitude CFI's can skip this part): Currently, I fly a Pt.91 corporate jet. I don't need to supplement my income anymore, have lots of free time and really want to go fly something that burns 100LL. Last week I went down to my local airport (SoCal area) and started making the rounds of the flight schools looking for a CFI with whom I could do some flying.
School #1: (Group of flight instructors standing around outside in flight school uniforms)
ME: Hi! Do you instruct here?
THEM: (annoyed that I interrupted conversation) Yeah. (they go back to talking)
ME: Who should I talk to about getting some instruction?
THEM: (pointing) The office is down there.
ME: Thank You!
THEM: Uh-huh.
(I'm Inside flight school office talking to nice woman at the desk)
ME: I'd like to sign up for a lesson.
WOMAN: I'm sorry, there are no instructors here right now. Would you like to leave your number?
School #2: (nobody in the office but I spy a young CFI sending a student out for a pre-flight)
ME: Hi! Do you instruct here?
CFI: Yes.
ME: Can I ask you a few questions about getting current in a 172?
CFI: I'm in the middle of a lesson right now, but here's a rate sheet.
(I peruse the display cases while the CFI spends 10 minutes talking to one of his friends who just walked in)
School #3: More of the same.
What's the deal? I brushed my teeth. My girlfriend says I look nice. I always bought my CFI's lunch. Why can't I get a flight lesson?
I have said this before, and will say it again. The first thing to do is be Good at what you do. DO not short change the student. You will learn more in the first 100 hours of teaching than you have learned to date. TEACH instruments. As an instrument flight instructor you will learn, and will earn your pay, especially if you teach in the clouds.Cutlass1287 said:
Money? Listen up. Have a good relationship with an aircraft broker. That's rule one. Number two? Refer to the first rule......Depending on where you are and who you teach, each student is a potential buyer. You will have earned the respect of your student and in turn, they will ask you for your input on an airplane.......If they have a company, well that's another matter.........Doing this, I have sold, through a broker, most everything from a 150 to a KingAir. Your cut? No less than 5% to 10%. In two cases, I crewed the airplane (KingAir and a Cessna 340). Be creative.
a36pilot
Member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2002
- Posts
- 5
CFI jobs
I earn around 33K a year at the place where I work. It's based on salary, not by hour. We work 0800-1700 shift, five days per week and weekends off. Usually instruct two or three students. Full benefits which includes medical, dental, vision, and life insurance, paid sick and vacation leave. We fly Beechcraft Bonanzas and Barons for our ab-initio flight training for future airline pilots.
We are looking for potential CFIs for next year and ad has been posted on www.findapilot.com web site.
Ciao
I earn around 33K a year at the place where I work. It's based on salary, not by hour. We work 0800-1700 shift, five days per week and weekends off. Usually instruct two or three students. Full benefits which includes medical, dental, vision, and life insurance, paid sick and vacation leave. We fly Beechcraft Bonanzas and Barons for our ab-initio flight training for future airline pilots.
We are looking for potential CFIs for next year and ad has been posted on www.findapilot.com web site.
Ciao
$30 per hr. For freelance advanced instruction. I don't do primary any more. But, I don't depend on CFI income as a primary source of income anymore either. I also have the luxury of choosing who and what I want to do so I don't have to fool around with unmotivated and apathetic students. I do volunteer each year at our local WINGS weekend however. LD
casper1nine
liberal radical party ldr
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2004
- Posts
- 95
propilot1983
Awesome Guy
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2004
- Posts
- 144
D
deez_nutz2000
I made $30 an hour, but we charged almost 65 an hour for ground/flight/sim.....didnt matter. However, we were based in a very affluent area and when we got potential customers, we knew they would come to us because in their mind if they were "paying more they were getting more".
Our competitors down the hall were at 30 an hour (cfi's were making 9 bucks).And when some people would disagree with how much more our prices were, we would ask them how much they paid their golf or tennis pro per hour........always worked (and usually always 30-40 bucks cheaper).
Never sell yourself short...you are teaching these people how to keep themselves and their loved ones safe...not to drive a ball 300 yards. Most, if not all, always realized our point once we convinced them of this, and we really weren't bull$hitting them.
Our competitors down the hall were at 30 an hour (cfi's were making 9 bucks).And when some people would disagree with how much more our prices were, we would ask them how much they paid their golf or tennis pro per hour........always worked (and usually always 30-40 bucks cheaper).
Never sell yourself short...you are teaching these people how to keep themselves and their loved ones safe...not to drive a ball 300 yards. Most, if not all, always realized our point once we convinced them of this, and we really weren't bull$hitting them.
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U of I Tweak
Busy Busy
- Joined
- May 11, 2003
- Posts
- 158
I only instructed a semester (class schedule just hasn't allowed it since) but we make like 6.25 or 6.50 an hour. The good part is, it's hourly pay, but guarenteed hours. Each student you have is six hours a week for the entire semester, so when you finish early...you still get paid. I enjoyed it, and when my class schedule allows it again, I'd like to instruct some more. In the mean time, I'm getting by working ramp. But there I'm making 800 a month.
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