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CFI pay

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RefugePilot said:
I know the routine, you pay your dues and you may get the good students and other perks for putting up with the abuse, then move on as soon as you can. Is there a loophole that allows flight schools legally to pay their employess less than minimum wage? Someone mentioned "professional status", like doctors during residency being paid $24k and expected to work 80 hours a week. If I could make $24k it would not be so bad, I wont make half that at this pace.

Is there a legal loophole that allows this indentured servitude or is it just a matter of putting up with it to get your time?

If you're an employee and you are required to be at work for those hours then you must be paid minimum wage (with a few exceptions none of which cover CFIs). Check your state and federal guidelines, but normally it's based on the period of a week.

Is it worth the trouble of getting it fixed - probably not. Either your boss knows they are breaking the law and doesn't care, or doesn't know. I guess on the off chance they don't know you could sit down and discuss it with them with actual numbers to support your position - but I wouldn't expect anybody to be happy about it - I know my boss wasn't when I brought it up (but he did agree to keep paying the weekly payment to the CFIs :-).
 
why do you assume that everyone here works for DCA. we know you hate DCA because you were forced to quit or fired or whatever....give it a rest no one brought up DCA at the begining of the thread you did. No one here cares what you think...... i think you need more than anger management.....
psycho therapy maybe?
 
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how else do you suggest I buld my time??? do you think you could stop being a prick for two seconds and actually offer some advise on what else we could do instead of being a cfi.(not that id take advise from you but it would be nice to see you try)
 
I think regardless of the thread or subject Buffet brings in DCA. I do not think he is able to control that part of his brain. There are alot of positives to DCA but thanks to Buffets opinions and experiences he continues to save the new flight students from ever making that terrible mistake of actually going there. Personally whatever job you have sounds pretty cool so be humble for that. Try not to be so insulting to the thousands of other people who are still doing the CFI thing. We are all trying to make an honest living putting in our dues day to day.. Get off your high horse and relax about everybody else who are not currently following in your foot steps. People are still going to attend DCA, FS, ATP. True DCA is quite expensive but your threads are really starting to make you look like an asshole!!
 
every one has problems with the flight school they went to.... i had problems with mine as well. his problems with DCA were most likely created by him not DCA.
I knew someone with the same attitude buffettck has. all he could talk about was how much money it was costing him and how the pay was crap and how they treated him like sh!t. these problems were created by him though... he screwed around and was very unprofesional so it took him twice as long to get through the program and twice the money. but of course it wasnt his fault...yeah right....its all what you make of it. buffettck you made the choice to go to DCA you need to live with that choice.... you also made the choice to leave so leave it alone....your opinion is so biased it isnt going to help any one deciding where to go.
I didnt like the flight school i went to either but i left with a degree and all my ratings. the difference is i dont feel the need to continually bitch about how sucky they were because i made the choice to leave.
people ask me what i thought of my school, i tell them i didnt like it and why i i didnt like it but go check it out and make your own mind up.
 
college food of the poor???? all college students are poor lawyers doctors enginers flight students.... now you have a problem with ramen... did you have a tramatic experiance when you were a kid or something... and dont say its DCAs fault loser
 
Dca?

Been looking through the threads for a while. What is DCA?
 
infiniti757, looks like you have been around for a while. just wondering what you think of all this. if you dont respond ill understand why. there is a lot of crap on these forums but some good info if you can stand to sift through it all. just wondering any comments?
 
infiniti757 said:
Been looking through the threads for a while. What is DCA?

DCA = Delta Comair Academy. Buffet's comments are actually a welcome dose of disgust with the industry. It was because of people like Buffet that I realized this industry was simply a young, rich-kid's game. Two years ago I was riding a Beech 1900 run by Gulfstream Academy. If you could only see the look of disappointment when I realized that I would have my life in the hands of some rich kid trying to play pilot for a day. I, being from the west coast, decided to travel east for a visit to FL. Upon boarding, I peeked my head in the cockpit and said "hm, I didn't know this 1900 had 20 fare-paying passengers aboard?" Ah, yes, the stunned look of silence.

There is always the option of getting out, finding another industry, and still flying for fun. It's simply not worth it to beat yourself up in the hopes of one day getting an airline job. So long as we are disillusioned with the industry, we shall continue to be recepticles for the shaft.

What troubles me about this industry the most is that one is considered a "loser" (not my phraseology, but that of others) if one doesn't work for the airlines. There are other jobs in aviation that can be equally rewarding and not be airline jobs.

What I have noticed here is that some folks have simply been "flight schooled." Being "flight schooled" is unlike going to flight school. You can be flight schooled and have never attended a flight school. In fact, people all over the world are being flight schooled every day and they are silently unware of that very fact. Here are some of the signs that you are being flight schooled.

1) Someone asks you: "How much multi-time do you have?" even though you don't have a multi-engine rating.

2) In the CFI lounge, you are constantly pestered by a fellow CFI with the following: "Hey, did you get your thousand hours yet?" This question is usually asked multiple times a day when he knows that you're at 600 or so hours and simply didn't complete that 400 hour x-c trip to hell.

3) "Are the airlines hiring?"

4) "I bet you can't wait to get the class date for the jet!"

5) "I calculated my actual IFR total. It's 2.1229 hours"

This sad representation of "intelligent talk" is usually conducted, with the exception of #2, on the flightline where instructors walk around in their captain's uniforms with the "Top Gun Anthem" blaring in their skulls as they see a fellow CFI's 172 taxi by. Being flight schooled, of course, is as common as the skidmarks on one's underpants at places like Wastewind, Pan-Scam, and Delta Comscare Academy. However, aviation isn't the only field. Financial services, engineering, and public service all have their versions of being flight schooled. A wise man once said: "Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat." The sad thing with CFIs is that there are so many rats that cheese is a hard item to find. And I'm not talking buttcheese, folks. There will always be plenty of those morsels lying around. Just pick up a copy of AOPA Flight Training or Flying and you'll find it dripping with such garbage.

I know a guy who was a DCA hopeful and now works as a baggage screener for TSA. I walked up to him one day and asked him how it felt to be "Thoughtlessly Standing Around?" (TSA). He nodded and asked me: "How do I get the fark out of this mess?"

You just do. Get out and breathe a sign of relief when you do. It'll be the biggest psychological dump you take and when you hit the flusher on the way out, you'll feel mighty good you did.
 
regarding the title of this thread, where i work we get time and a half for every hour flown over 50 per month. add in the ground time and the 2 hours a night for private classes that i teach it can add up to a nice chunk of change per month. 7 of our 13 CFI's usually get right around 90 hours per month
 
thats almost what we have only its 44hrs, but in the midwest the 80 to 90 hours in the summer goes down to 20 to 30 hours in the winter. id move somewhere warm but thankfully my wife can more than make up the difference in income.

hey buffett.....DCADCADCADCADCA.....that must be what you see in your head since that is all you can talk about.... your not there any more get over it. your response to the last post was about DCA (what a shocker) but the post you were responding to had nothing to do with DCA. This post has nothing to do with DCA along with every other post besides the one that is actually about DCA. SO STAY ON THAT THREAD AND THAT TREAD ONLY!!!!

i know im just feeding the fire responding to buffettck....i have nothing better to do right now
 
skygod75 said:
DCA = Delta Comair Academy. Buffet's comments are actually a welcome dose of disgust with the industry. It was because of people like Buffet that I realized this industry was simply a young, rich-kid's game. Two years ago I was riding a Beech 1900 run by Gulfstream Academy. If you could only see the look of disappointment when I realized that I would have my life in the hands of some rich kid trying to play pilot for a day. I, being from the west coast, decided to travel east for a visit to FL. Upon boarding, I peeked my head in the cockpit and said "hm, I didn't know this 1900 had 20 fare-paying passengers aboard?" Ah, yes, the stunned look of silence.

There is always the option of getting out, finding another industry, and still flying for fun. It's simply not worth it to beat yourself up in the hopes of one day getting an airline job. So long as we are disillusioned with the industry, we shall continue to be recepticles for the shaft.

What troubles me about this industry the most is that one is considered a "loser" (not my phraseology, but that of others) if one doesn't work for the airlines. There are other jobs in aviation that can be equally rewarding and not be airline jobs.

What I have noticed here is that some folks have simply been "flight schooled." Being "flight schooled" is unlike going to flight school. You can be flight schooled and have never attended a flight school. In fact, people all over the world are being flight schooled every day and they are silently unware of that very fact. Here are some of the signs that you are being flight schooled.

1) Someone asks you: "How much multi-time do you have?" even though you don't have a multi-engine rating.

2) In the CFI lounge, you are constantly pestered by a fellow CFI with the following: "Hey, did you get your thousand hours yet?" This question is usually asked multiple times a day when he knows that you're at 600 or so hours and simply didn't complete that 400 hour x-c trip to hell.

3) "Are the airlines hiring?"

4) "I bet you can't wait to get the class date for the jet!"

5) "I calculated my actual IFR total. It's 2.1229 hours"

This sad representation of "intelligent talk" is usually conducted, with the exception of #2, on the flightline where instructors walk around in their captain's uniforms with the "Top Gun Anthem" blaring in their skulls as they see a fellow CFI's 172 taxi by. Being flight schooled, of course, is as common as the skidmarks on one's underpants at places like Wastewind, Pan-Scam, and Delta Comscare Academy. However, aviation isn't the only field. Financial services, engineering, and public service all have their versions of being flight schooled. A wise man once said: "Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat." The sad thing with CFIs is that there are so many rats that cheese is a hard item to find. And I'm not talking buttcheese, folks. There will always be plenty of those morsels lying around. Just pick up a copy of AOPA Flight Training or Flying and you'll find it dripping with such garbage.

I know a guy who was a DCA hopeful and now works as a baggage screener for TSA. I walked up to him one day and asked him how it felt to be "Thoughtlessly Standing Around?" (TSA). He nodded and asked me: "How do I get the fark out of this mess?"

You just do. Get out and breathe a sign of relief when you do. It'll be the biggest psychological dump you take and when you hit the flusher on the way out, you'll feel mighty good you did.

AMEN!!! To hell with the flight academies.....fly cargo or do the CFI route, way too many rich kids lunging for the epaulets!!
 
regarding the topic of the thread- I make 15.50 an hour. Its the highest starting pay around in this area, gotta love Florida. I just started this week though so it will go up as I build time.

regarding what everyone is talking about. DCA is a hell hole, I wish I would never have gone there. buffettck is right about them making you buy new manuals and charts whenever they get a wild hair up their ass. Im surprised they didnt make us pay for the revisions sheets that go in the manuals. Most of the kids that went there were rich boys/girls that were doing the airline pilot thing before they went to medical or law school . My own ignorance is why i decided to go there but Im glad to say that I got out before shelling out 100k, thanks partly to this website. Good points all around
 
buffettck said:
So then go ahead and register for food stamps. Look at all the fat welfare mommas dragging along their 5+ chillun's (i.e. paychecks) at the Wal-Mart on hwy 17-92...or the Winn Dixie towards Lake Monroe...or whatever your local "mart" is. The DCA guys know what I'm talking about... White, black, Hispanic, etc...doesn't matter... That's life in Sanford, Fl...glad I don't live there anymore...

But, them gov't lackie mommaz gots their steaks, ice creams, frozen pizzas, and 12 packs of brand XXX beer in their shoppin' carts... All they gotta do is whip out that WIC card and bada-bing, bada-boom... The REST of us finance their lifestyles via the taxes we pay... Think about THAT when you're making the low $20s/hr at a regional...

So, why should you have to endure the fat/carbs/calories horror of "just because it's so cheap" ramen? Read the label of that packaged fried "before boiled" crap...

I say get that gov't aid if you qualify for it (thankfully, I don't)...it's out there for anyone and at least you're doing something with your life besides worrying about where "yo baby daddy at"...

And consider this... When all that CFI'ing is said and done, most guys probably will STILL qualify for gov't aid for years to come as a piss-poorly paid FO at "whatever" regional...if they go that route. After all, that's what the "guaranteed interview" DCA guys are shooting for... Those guys need a reality check. I understand the whole romantic "love of flying" thing, but bills need to get paid and life needs living beyond the cockpit... I'm sure the divorced airline guys here would agree... I know a few guys like that myself...

The sad thing is most guys won't realize that until they turn 30+ and wonder where that "love of flying" went when they're sittin' furloughed from that $17-25/hr job watching Simpsons re-runs... Thankfully, I punched out of instructing for DCA and didn't end up like that, but I've shared many a beers with good friends who did... And they were not all DCA grads/prior instructors either...(DCA doesn't matter). Just victims of the "regional airline" lifestyle. And two guys flew for a "major".

I pray for these young "bright-eyed and bushy-tailed" kids coming into the airline industry these days thinking they'll "make it big"...

Sure won't happen when anyone can go on-line to travelocity.com (or whatever) and pick the absolutely dirt cheapest airfare...that's all that matters...point A to B...regardless of the airline, ya gotta put up with the TSA/airport crap anyway...and the service on any US airline pretty much blows so it might as well be CHEAP. Can't take a Cathay Pacific, Emirates, or Singapore Air flight for US domestic destinations... Those foreign airlines know how to do it right!

The internet killed the "airline pilot" lifestyle long ago... It's not like anyone chooses one airline over another because they have better maintenance or "crash less"... Passenger/food service has pretty much gone out the window on any airline unless one flies first class, but how many "fares" actually do that? Surely, not enough to keep an airline afloat...hence all the financial turmoil these days. Delta, Northwest, etc... 40% pay cuts for the pilots...loss of pension/benefits, etc... Seems like ALPA isn't stepping up to the plate for these guys, although unions in any fashion simply SUCK.

That light at the "end of the tunnel" really IS an oncoming train to financial "wreckdom"... With the airlines, "rectum"...same, same... BOHICA...

But, I guess somebody's gotta fly them airplanes just like somebody's gotta swab the deck and clean the toilets as well... Just do NOT expect glamour, fame and fortune!

Sorry for the sermon, but the "old guys" know it's true...



AMEN BROTHER!!!!
 
Jagboy69 said:
Then stay the hell out of the civilian sector, you clearly don't belong here. I spent my time in the military instructing, don't preach that crap to me! I choose not to retire airforce that was my decision. I wanted a change and to become a CIVILIAN again. That's why I'm here. You tried DCA and it wasn't for you. That's fine. I did my time in the military and I was burnt out after 10 years.

No one today really needs a dang interview. If you have the time and are a people person, you get the job. Any job, regional or major. The military could care less about people skills, We strapped them into F-16s and sent them on their way. Not crew type people. Where is you Major airline job Mr. 5000hr pilot?

My Goal? None of you business. I have my own mission in life.


Just a question...are your hours correct on here? cause I see 800+ but you say you were in the military for 10 years. Why don't you have more than 800 hours? Just a question, I am not bustin your balls or nothin' just trying to find a basis for your agreement.
 
So, the pilots trying to get hired by a major these days now all understand that they are doing it for the "fun of flying" and not for the big bucks right? The big bucks are fading fast.
 
Wow sorry I did not realize I was involved in a pi$$ing contest between two guys who know each from DCA. I was agreeing with the "state of the industry" comments...

Are most DCA guys brainwashed like you folks are? DCA just opened a "school" at a nearby college and those guys are so brainwashed into thinking DCA is the only way to get your ratings. These guys are not even Pvt pilots but they talk as if they are already Regional Pilots or something. In my opinion DCA is no different than Paid for training. You are putting A LOT of money into the pockets of management @ Delta while they cut benefits and pay from line pilots and other employee groups. Do DCA "students" ever think about things in those terms? Your $80,000 for flight training (that cost DCA about $25,000) goes to the company led by management that is decreasing the Quality of life for all pilots within the Delta system and is influencing the airline industry as a whole.

I understand you are not directly paying for your job but you are paying for the "interview" which is pretty much the same thing. Its just a way around the PTF wording.
 
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buffetck- yeah I am based out of CRG, do some flying at HEG too. We fly over mayport all the time.

paid4training- yes most DCA students think they are gods. Most of them are ignorant to all other facets of aviation besides the regionals. When an instructor goes off to the CRJ Bridge trainer in SFB before his regional class, that instructor is considered a deity.
 
Internet?

The internet killed the "airline pilot" lifestyle long ago...

I think maybe you should look to deregulation of the airline industry as the real cause of most of the issues. The intenet has little to do with it. Even without the internet, you would just have travel agents looking for the best fare. Now, if you want to talk about a part of the business that got shafted by the internet....it's the travel agency business. Almost completely gone.
 

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