CFI pay

[CalifDan]

Internet

However, with travel agencies vastly out of the picture, commercial flyers using internet travel services THESE days will keep the prices low, low, low

I don't want to get in any pissing match over free market economics, but the internet and the users of the internet have nothing to do with the willingness of the airline industry to compete in a free market. If the internet did not exist, travel agencies or the consumer themselves through phone calls would still be looking for the cheapest fare. The internet is just a communications vehicle.

I think that we may reach a point where we decide that deregulation may have been a mistake. While the consumer has certainly benefitted, the taxpayer cost to support the industry in various ways and the effects on the industry itself are problematic. Maybe the right model is partial regulation, I'm not sure. I am sure that the best fare exists not because the public demands it but because corporate decision makers are trying to capture market share.

It's complicated also by the fact that the airlines would be taken to task for restraint of trade and price fixing issues if they got together to try and save themselves by responsible ticket pricing based on cost of operation.

While I'm a free market advocate, I recognize that some things are better served from a regulatory base. California sure discovered some of the things that could happen with energy costs the last few years based on deregulation. It's unfortunate what is happening to the business. Less service, longer drives for passengers because no one will fly a routes to smaller airports, bigger peak hour hits at major airports, longer travel routes because of hub and spoke issues, and starting pilot pay that is not consistent with the responsibility and effort required to reach the position.

 

[CalifDan]

Agree to disagree

Buffettck,

We may just have to agree to disagree. I'm aware of the relationship of the airlines to the years past travel industry. I apparently can't get you to consider the role that deregulation has played in lowering the airline business to the lowest competitive denominator. You think the internet killed the business, so be it. Why are there still some foreign flag carriers who can provide incredible service? A little subsidy from their governments, no deregulation? Last I checked, it was the World Wide Web.

In my post I acknowledged I'm a free market proponent with some reservations about certain things. I think that there are businesses that have a national strategic importance. Having a viable airline industry is of strategic importance in my opinion. Perhaps complete deregulation was a mistake. There needs to be enough money in the system to pay entry level professional pilots (airline or otherwise) enough to live on while still buying the fuel and making something for the stock holders.

I'm not really excited about charging off on a regional jet or turbo prop where the Captain and FO might have less experience than i do, but I suspect that I have. This is particularly true if you look around at some of the schools that are cranking them out in minimum hours and worse, minimum calendar time. A pilot needs a few winters under their belt before they start hauling people around for pay (my opinion). Sure, I took people up starting the day I got my pilots license, but I didn't have a schedule to keep and pretty much picked the situation. Part 135, 121, etc that all changes. In fact, being the non-professional that I am, I still don't worry about the schedule, pick the time and weather and have stayed a few extra days just because I didn't want to go, not because I wasn't qualified.

While I'm at it, CFI's should get a bigger piece of the pie. That said, some of them need to think about what they are accomplishing. I've flown with a few CFI's who were clearly building time, and that was more imortant to them than my, or anyone else's training. I've also flown with CFI's who are knowledgable and even though they are looking for that next job, provide training that makes them look like career instructors. My MEL instructor was one of the most accurate on the numbers pilot I've ever flown with. There isn't an hour that I fly that I don't think about that and try to emulate it, and that's been 25 years ago. I sincerely hope that he is sitting left seat somewhere enjoying a good career.

I guess I don't get it in regard to CFI pay. Another $5 an hour for the CFI would not cost that much in the overall scheme of things. What does it take to get from nothing to CFI? About 100 hours of dual? Thats an extra $500. Not going to break anyones bank. And once you have your CFI it will take you 100 flight hours to earn it back. Guys like me will never earn it back, but I spent half that much fueling my twin yesterday. If you are looking for about 800 more flight hours to get to your airline interview, thats a net gain of $3,500 gross. Hell let's make it an extra 10 bucks an hour.

Ultimately, I don't think that an extra $10 an hour for a CFI or an extra $25 per ticket on the airline is going to drive anyone away. To bad the airline execs would rather run it to the edge of distruction in a mad dash to the bottom. To bad too that the unions will trade away starting pay.

 

[BLing]

140 hours a month? Are you sure? That's a whole lot of CFI flying at around 5 FLIGHT hours a day, every single weather perfect day, based on a 30 day month...

Maybe 140 hours a quarter?

I'm pretty sure I know how to do math and total up my logbooks! Yes you are right, it is a lot of FLIGHT instucting. I work about 12 hour days every day. I finally took a few days off this week after flying everyday for 2 months straight. My flight school is in Arizona because the weather is always perfect for flying. The only time weather such as IFR has been an issue for me is if I chose to climb high enough to get into it. I know its hard to believe that it is possible to instruct that much, but its true.

 

[BLing]

I get a $400/week salary, free rent, free food (most of the time) and fly about 140 hrs/month in airplanes with questionable airworthiness. Up until now I have only had to teach instrument and commercial students, now I am getting multiengine students. I work hard, and dont get paid as much as I should, but I guess the free rent and food offsets that. Although I have no life, and have been away from home and my girl for almost 6 months, I am getting everything I need to move on at a very rapid pace. There is a lot of good and bad things about my job, but overall I am thankful to be where I am at this point in time.

 

[cobraman]

Just a question...are your hours correct on here? cause I see 800+ but you say you were in the military for 10 years. Why don't you have more than 800 hours? Just a question, I am not bustin your balls or nothin' just trying to find a basis for your agreement.

I dont feel the need to post the hours I flew in the military. I don't believe in an "I love me wall" either. I'm pretty sure our pal here Scott D. has one at home with all his military junk hanging over his bed. I have 2 boxes of awards and decs just collecting dust in the garage. I really doubt that anyone cares what wars I have been in. Big Freaking deal.

(I didnt post your complete last name here so don't whine and moan to the admins just to get me suspended again.