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CFI Military Competency

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Yet another update: although the new rule will be releasedon 10 Nov 08, it won't be "implemented" for an additional 60 days. The FAA told me it was some sort of legal requirement. I don't quite understand why, but there you have it.
 
I am an ex military instructor that went through the GI bill training (am I dating myself?) and earned a CFI, CFII and MEI and now am a Gold Seal Instructor. I am also an execitive with a major part 142 training company.

Having "been there" I feel that the military comp test for pilot rating concept should carry over.A CFI test should cover things that are not taught in military IP school. Questions should also be developed for single engine and multi engine CFI and they should be passed for that qualification.

Eveyone agrees (I think) that the flight training received in the military is top notch, it's the cililian unique areas that need to be understood by the applicant.
 
I will say that experienced military instructor pilots are all the best trained and most qualified to teach military pilots to fly. As for teaching civilians to fly in a Cessna 172 or any other typical trainer, that will be safe enough but I would expect the students to be signed off for solo, solo X-C and for certification with many glaring omissions in their training record.

You might say no, or so what, unfortunately for these young military CFI’s who are so well intended, the end result may be certificate action or law suits for the omissions in the case of an accident.

Military CFI's: For you own good beware of the FAA and the Lawyers unless you have mastered the rules of FAA pilot certification from first flight to certification and beyond.
 
UndauntedFlyer said:
I would expect the students to be signed off for solo, solo X-C and for certification with many glaring omissions in their training record.
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I have to wonder if you have any knowledge of what a military instructor is responsible for on any given flight?

Pre-sortie preparation -- e.g. knowing what required prerequisite training is, verifying accomplishment of that training in the student's gradebook, knowing what the syllabus requires on the current sortie, and tailoring the profile/instruction to meet those requirements -- is the cornerstone of how a military IP performs his business.

There is no reason to believe that an instructor who is "brought up" in the military knowing that this is part of his charge will look at doing the job as a CFI any differently.
 
Mud Eagle said:
Pre-sortie preparation -- e.g. knowing what required prerequisite training is, verifying accomplishment of that training in the student's gradebook, knowing what the syllabus requires on the current sortie, and tailoring the profile/instruction to meet those requirements -- is the cornerstone of how a military IP performs his business.
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I have given nothing but praise for military flight instructors and the work they do. I am quite sure they know full well how to do that job.

My comments about Part 61 training are based on 40-years of experience working with the FAA in the Part 61 training environment as well as expert witness work dealing with defense of CFI's who missed a small point here and there in a training record due to either carelessness or a lack of knowledge regarding Part 61 as well as the many AC's that deal with training. I also have had many conversations with military pilots who were FAA CFI's too, and they also agree with me that the typical military CFI is in no way prepared to jump into the Part 61 world by just self training for a Part 61 CFI written test. Plus, of course, many of the maneuvers and the training philosophy is quite different for FAA certification.

My advice, quite simply is to watch out for your career if you do FAA CFI work when you really don’t know all about the job. Ask yourself how it would be for a typical FAA CFI to pass a military IP written test and then come to Moody to start teaching in the T-6 Texan without supervison. How would their student do on their 1st progress check? And what kind of a chance would that student have of completing their training with his/her classs?
 
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For those Military IP's that were taught the FAA system and civilan aircraft will have a much better transition as a "civilian" CFI than those who are just "granted" a CFI with out additional training and exams.

My example: A Dentist and a Proctologist are both doctors who look into human orifices, but they have very different points of view.......... But, I would not want them to trade jobs (and work on me) with out some additional training and certification (and I would hope some OJT).....

I do not know many CFI's that think they can just jump into the Military IP position. It seems that (at least here) are Military IP's that think they can just jump into being a CFI with knowing the "Civilian" world of flying. IMHO it will just be trouble for the student and the "CFI".

IMHO the present system of certification works, and not just for primary training but for any "civilian" training. There is more to the system than just flying the aircraft.

Again my objection is in the "granting" a CFI with out the civilian system knowledge and certification exams.
 
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JAFI said:
For those Military IP's that were taught the FAA system and civilan aircraft will have a much better transition as a "civilian" CFI than those who are just "granted" a CFI with out additional training and exams.

My example: A Dentist and a Proctologist are both doctors who look into human orifices, but they have very different points of view.......... But, I would not want them to trade jobs (and work on me) with out some additional training and certification (and I would hope some OJT).....

I do not know many CFI's that think they can just jump into the Military IP position. It seems that (at least here) are Military IP's that think they can just jump into being a CFI with knowing the "Civilian" world of flying. IMHO it will just be trouble for the student and the "CFI".

IMHO the present system of certification works, and not just for primary training but for any "civilian" training. There is more to the system than just flying the aircraft.

Again my objection is in the "granting" a CFI with out the civilian system knowledge and certification exams.
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I doubt I'm going to change your mind, but I believe there is going to be a competency exam in order to get the certification. The military follows the same FAR that the rest of the country uses to fly. I think that a military instructor who will be at least 27 years old before he would get to a point in his career (minus a few sergrads or faips who may be a couple years younger) to have done an instructor tour would be mature enough to study and understand the requirements for instructing. There is a big difference between a civilian IP becoming a military IP and the opposite. If we can learn the regulations enough to take the tests and get our ATPs without ever having a day of civilian instruction, I think we are capable of doing the job that a pilot with 300-500 hours of civilian time can do. We're big boys.
 
Anybody know when they'll post the rule?

I don't think they're going to make it by September '08. Doesn't appear that it will be today either.
 
The rule should have been signed today. Expect to see info on Wednesday.
Sheppard Air will probably offer the study software by the end of this week.
That said, you can study, do the test,... but it might be until January until you will be able to go to your FSDO and get the certificates. It will take the FAA about 2 months to fully implement the change.
 
Well.....

Is this law now?
 
Andy Neill said:
I don't see it in the electronic version of 61.73 (Military pilots or former military pilots: Special rules) yet.
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I subscribe to the Jeppesen FAR's and they are usually pretty prompt in getting the revisions like this out. Nothing yet!

I would be like to know just when this does actually become law so if you or anyone find it electronically shown as an actual rule change I would be pleased to learn of that as soon as it can be posted. Thank you.
 
The Sheppard link has a 22 Dec update. The gist of it is to go ahead and get the FOI done while waiting for the final rule in (maybe) January.
 
Some of you may not need the FOI: if you have a Ground Instructor rating,.... also, if your a certified teacher at the 7th grade level or higher.
 
Huggyu2 said:
Some of you may not need the FOI: if you have a Ground Instructor rating,.... also, if your a certified teacher at the 7th grade level or higher.
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Hopefully if you're a certified teacher, you know the difference between 'your' and 'you're.'
 
I am not a certified teacher, but yes, I'm one of the ones that using "you're" and "your" (as well as "their", "there", and "they're") incorrectly is something I really try to avoid.
I don't know how I missed it. Too much turkey, I suppose. I would edit it, but the "editing time out" feature has removed that possibility. Maybe the mods will do it for me.
Thanks.
 
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Huggy!

I chatted with Sagan a couple of days ago. Nice to catch up on things. Cheers.
 
Has this reg changed yet? I haven't seen anything more. What is the story on this pending change?
 
Mud Eagle said:
Sheppard Air says that Obama put all federal rule changes on hold until they can be reviewed.
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How can that be? There must be more to this. The rule was supposed to be changed back in November. It was delayed for some reason and now Obama has only been president for 10 days. If the reg changes were put on hold it must have come pre-Obama, don't you think. I really find it hard to blame this on the new administration. So this makes me think there is an FAA problem with this change. It makes me think some FAA person has a problem with this and has put a stop on it. That means it may not happen at all but who knows?
 
Any more word on the rule change to allow military IP's to easily convert to an FAA CFI?
 
GOIM029.GIF
 
The test became available on the 20th and I took it today. The Sheppard Air prep was right on. They have the question bank down to less than 600 questions now so it's not nearly as bad as when I first started studying. It's pretty straight forward and not too much of a pain to get through.
 
Razor_B said:
The test became available on the 20th and I took it today. The Sheppard Air prep was right on. They have the question bank down to less than 600 questions now so it's not nearly as bad as when I first started studying. It's pretty straight forward and not too much of a pain to get through.
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..."not too much of a pain to get through"...

That's my favorite part.
 
nosehair said:
Sorry I havn't read the new reg yet. Does this get you a CFI certificate, or do you now have to meet the other requirements of 61.183 including a checkride?
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http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.2.1.9&idno=14

61.73 (the link above) covers military competency rules for civilian ratings and you would need to read it to see what an individual would qualify for based on his particular military experience. But the short answer is no, a checkride is not required, written exam only.

After USAF pilot training I took a written and got my commercial, multi-engine and instrument ratings. I later took a regular civilian checkride to add a single-engine. Now, based on my previous USAF instructor experience I'll get my CFI, II and MEI.

This is a great deal that has been a long time coming.
 
Razor_B said:
, a checkride is not required, written exam only.



This is a great deal that has been a long time coming.
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Now former IPs' that haven’t flown an airplane in 30 years can get a current CFI. So much for standardization and qualification. But you can compensate with ego.....

A great deal??? For who? Your students while you figure out what is required for them to take an exam?

The problem is the lowest common dominator will drive the errors. What "Standard" do you have to correct that? With the current CFI system at least some one looks at each applicant. Now a CFI is just a gift.
 

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