CFI logging landings

[greygoose]

I stopped by a flight school the other day, and over heard a conversation about a instructor telling his student that he logs all of his students landings. I didn't feel comfortable to step in on the conversation but it sounded like the student knew more what was going on with then the instructor. The instructor claimed that he only had to log the necessary landings for currency, which I do give him credit for but also mentioned that he was ok to log the student landings so he could keep track of how many landings he was responsible for in his CFI Career.
Has anyone heard anything like this before?

 

[Fly_Chick]

Greygoose, please clarify. The instructor logs all of the student's landings? Where does the instructor log these landings - his logbook or the student's? If in his own logbook, does the instructor log these separate than his own landings?

 

[greygoose]

By I what I took it as he logged all the landings in his own logbook together.

 

[Fly_Chick]

Interesting... see this post which came up a while ago about the instructor logging landings for students.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=52742

 

[midlifeflyer]

The rule is pretty simple and straightforward. To count landings for currency, the pilot counting them needs to be the sole manipulator of the controls.

So the CFI is only logging them to keep track of how many landings his students are doing? And he uses his logbook as his student record as well as his own?

Sure. Why not. No problem =-IF= something in the CFIs logbook clearly identifies which are and which are not for currency purposes. If he has an incident with a passenger on board and the FAA asks to see his logbook to show passenger-carrying currency, how can the FAA tell them apart?

There really are better ways to keep student records than in your own logbook. I'm curious: does he also log his students solo flights?

 

[Tram]

Why would the instructor want to log the landings anyway? What good is it?

 

[jaxpilot]

not to say its right, but to log x/c time with a student, the instructor has to make the landing. If an instructor is trying to get to 135 minimums, then they need to get that 500 x/c somehow.

 

[BushwickBill]

When I save the airplane from becoming a twisted heap of student and aluminum I log the landing. Thats just about every one. Me thinks. Although I feel the same rule under part 61 that allows me to log the time allows me to log the landing.

 

[wheelsup]

not to say its right, but to log x/c time with a student, the instructor has to make the landing. If an instructor is trying to get to 135 minimums, then they need to get that 500 x/c somehow.

That's the first time I've ever heard that. I've got probably 300 hours of xcty time where I never actually landed the plane - doesn't mean it wasn't a cross country flight.

(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

Nothing in there about who has to log the landing - just that the aircraft landed at a point beyond yada yada yada.


I could be off base here but I haven't encoutered any problems with my 5.5 hour flights, zero logged landings, and 5.5 hours of xcty - that's about 900 miles of flying in an Bonanza or Baron...

~wheelsup

 

[midlifeflyer]

Nothing in there about who has to log the landing - just that the aircraft landed at a point beyond yada yada yada.

jax may be interpreting from a poorly-written-and-most-likely-incorrect Part 61 FAQ that says that a safety pilot can't log cross country because he's not the one making the landing. I've never heard of it being applied anywhere else either and don't pay much attention to the original.

 

[troy]

On my CFII ride last week, I asked the FSDO guy doing my ride this very question (not that he is the word of the law by any means, just a safety inspector). He said to log them. I usually do, and remark "student" by all that my students did by themselves.

 

[BushwickBill]

Is there anyone here who has made it beyond CFI that has had logged landings come up as an issue in an interview or during a hiring process?

 

[Workin'Stiff]

I did. Granted I rented an aircraft enough to stay current on my own. I just added in the remarks for those flights - SE/ME Day/Night Currency. I never got any flak on interviews...

 

[onthebeach]

I can certainly understand a CFI being this wrong.

I used to fly with a number of newly-certified MEI/CFII's as right-seaters in a King Air (I logged dual given, they logged dual received.). Some of these geniuses would try to log the landings that I made!

Not to mention how many times I had to tell them,
"No, you cannot log SIC for this;" or,
"Yes, you can log PIC time for the leg you flew in the King Air, even though you weren't the PIC, and even though you don't have a high altitude endorsement."

When pilots screw up, it's pilot error.

But when pilots are screwed up, it's CFI error.

If doctors were trained to the level of quality control that CFIs are trained to in this country, there would be a 75% mortality rate in every hospital in the land.

Have a nice day.

 

[minitour]

If I do the landing, I log it.

Sometimes I'm demonstrating a landing (be it normal, short/soft field, whatever) and sometimes I'm saving the airplane from becoming a burning pile of aluminum at the approach end of the runway...

If the student slams it on the ground and I didn't have to help, I don't log it.

Aside from a "Self Proficiency Flight" I did the other day to shoot some NDB approaches/Holds, I haven't logged a landing in an airplane in a while.

-mini

 

[midlifeflyer]

mini, I hope it hasn't been more than 90 days since you've done at least 3 if you're doing primary training.

 

[rubberducky]

Is there anyone here who has made it beyond CFI that has had logged landings come up as an issue in an interview or during a hiring process?

Yes I have made it past the CFI and I have had many interviews and no it has never come up. Nevertheless just because those interviewers didn't catch it doesn't make it correct. Remember you can log anything that you want, you only need to show currency or proper flight experience for a rating. Just think about it, as an instructor you log the flight time and it is understood that you may or may not ever touch the controls. I can prove currency with my landings in my logbook and the student records I log for my own reasons (curiousity).

 

[minitour]

mini, I hope it hasn't been more than 90 days since you've done at least 3 if you're doing primary training.

Nope...logbook pro keeps me well on top of that.

It'd been a few weeks since I had done any and that was a trip for dinner...so...still hangin in there. Got a student almost at the point where I can start doing "best landing wins a coke" contests...that should be fun.

-mini

 

[kj6991]

for what it's worth i log every landing. i know when my currency is up i keep track of it in other tabulations in my records. and when my time is up to get current, i do so. we have had 8 instructors depart in the last 2 months and it has never been a problem with logging landings, primarily with students.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Who cares...I logged every landing as a CFI and now I log every landing as a Captain on an RJ. That is sort of like wondering if Southwest is going to care how carefully I logged my IMC time over the past 6 years of flying at my airline. In the same vein, who cares...in 6 years of line flying, I'm sure they understood that I was bound to bump into some clouds and low vis along the way.

-Neal