Cessna 421 down near Kapa

[snowman]

I just heard a blurb on the tv. No real info.

www.thedenverchannel.com/news/4007175/detail.html

 

[Flyin Tony]

not another

 

[Buffettpilot]

Plane Crashes Near Centennial Airport

Dec 17, 2004 3:42 pm US/Mountain
CENTENNIAL, Colo. (News 4) A plane crashed near Centennial Airport Friday afternoon, News 4 reports.

Witnesses said it is a small plane, and that smoke can be seen for miles.

The crash happened on the south end of one of the runways.

Off of CBS Channel 4 website

 

[SabreFlyR]

Looks like a 421, I was a few miles NE of the airport driiving back that way and could see the smoke from there. Sad. Apparently four on board no survivors.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/4007175/detail.html

 

[midlifeflyer]

Latest update. Still sketchy, but 3 souls on board. No expected survivors. Not based at Centennial.

 

[Quimby]

God speed.

 

[KPTPK]

Two within a week!

 

[jergar999]

Lets hope it wasn't another board member.

 

[Guitar Guy]

How awful. This will sadly cast quite a pall over the Christmas season for the family and friends of those onboard. My condolences and prayers got out to them.

What a tragic coincidence that KAPA is the site of another fatal crash within about a week. My wife works down near KAPA - it always sends a shiver down my back when I hear of crash near the airport down there.

 

[Knob]

This 421 is owned by a 20 year old woman-The victims are noted as 1 woman and 2 men, names not mentioned. I hope this is not a case of inexperience contributing to the cause of this crash. Wait until the media figures that out.

 

[bobbysamd]

This story from Channel 9 provides info on the aircraft's registration. This Denver Post article has more detail. It sounds like this was a corporate aircraft.

You never like to hear this kind of news. I, too, hope it's not another board member.

 

[ultrarunner]

WOW. I didn't think there were any more 36 year old 421's still flying. That old beast nearly twice the age of the pilot. If the reports are true.

 

[bigD]

Years ago, I knew a guy that decided to buy a 421 shortly after getting his multi-commercial certificate. He had 270 hours, none in the 421, and about 13 in the Seminole. I told him that he was dreaming if he thought he'd be able to insure it at any price. He made the comment that with the prices on the big twin Cessna's being so depressed, he could pick up an older 421 for less than 200K. At that price, he could pay cash, and not have to worry about insurance.

Fortunately maintenance ate him alive, forcing him to sell it six months later - before he had a chance to kill himself.

I'm not making any assumtions about this girl's experience, but it seems that the 300/400 series attracts pilots with more money than sense.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Of course it does. That's the American way. What would this country be without the lousy FAA handing out the answers to any test, and basically allowing any schlamiel with money to fly airplanes. In Europe, you actually have to be intelligent, and well educated in the complexities of aviation before they allow you in the sky. I can almost guarantee that the number of airplane crashes has not changed, just the number of them the media picks up...

 

[bigD]

Of course, nothing has indicated that the 20 year old was the PIC of the plane. The article made mention that she was the owner, and that she held a commercial multi certificate. But that by itself doesn't necessarily mean she was flying.

 

[Standby 1]

This 421 is owned by a 20 year old woman-The victims are noted as 1 woman and 2 men, names not mentioned. I hope this is not a case of inexperience contributing to the cause of this crash. Wait until the media figures that out.

Her father bought her the aircraft for her to build time in. I only met her once, and all I know is that she was low time and one of the gentlemen on board was serving in a instructor/safety pilot capacity.



...

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I believe it was an insurance checkout with cfi and insurance guy in back observing. Very sad. She was a wonderful young woman (did not know the other 2)

 

[Knob]

This young woman was a total fox! She will be missed around here. Check out this link for a pic.

http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=e89f6d22-0abe-421a-0056-ca88ee91dbf7&TEMPLATEID=5991da4c-ac1f-02d8-0055-99a54930515e

 

[wrxpilot]

Of course it does. That's the American way. What would this country be without the lousy FAA handing out the answers to any test, and basically allowing any schlamiel with money to fly airplanes. In Europe, you actually have to be intelligent, and well educated in the complexities of aviation before they allow you in the sky. I can almost guarantee that the number of airplane crashes has not changed, just the number of them the media picks up...

Well, I think Europe has plenty of its own problems too. Those of you who are AOPA members, here's a link explaining the difficulty of flying in Europe:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/2002/worse0211.html

Most of that is just bureaucratic BS that hinders flying. Perhaps that somehow makes things "safer", but there's no way I'd get involved in aviation with that kind of red tape and huge expense.

I'd also think somebody with your high amount of time (it's very high compared to me at least) would've been around long enough to realize the importance of getting and reacting to the knowledge of what happened in a particular crash. You're just shooting from the hip with NO INFORMATION about this accident!

I've heard the knowledge tests are pretty difficult in Europe, but I'd also wonder how often Europeans get to fly on a regular basis compared to US pilots. In England and northern Europe, they have bad weather and extremely high expenses to contend with. They don't have as many accidents, but they sure don't have as many people flying out there either. And if you were to look at it normalized to population, I'd argue there's a much greater percentage of the pilot population out there in Europe that are professional pilots w/ a crew of 2. That's not such a great thing when you look at how many people here start off having to foot the bill until CFI (even then still paying, but hopefully less). The only way you could play that game would be military or extremely rich.

Anyone else have an opinion on this? I've heard a lot of people bashing our system compared to the JAA or whatever, but so far I've only seen ranting rather than facts.

 

[Ailerongirl]

This young woman was a total fox! She will be missed around here. Check out this link for a pic.

http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=e89f6d22-0abe-421a-0056-ca88ee91dbf7&TEMPLATEID=5991da4c-ac1f-02d8-0055-99a54930515e

Well...I think you just lived up to your handle...

 

[FN FAL]

Well...I think you just lived up to your handle...

Yea, what's he thinking...the gal would have been flying Boeing 717's long before he would have got a job flying as a secretary on an RJ...big bonk on the head to him.

 

[avbug]

Is there something about being 20 years old that merely offends some of you? Or is it being female? Appears to me that the woman was seeking additional training and instruction, for whatever purpose, and that no facts are in evidence to suggest anything at this point in time.

Why don't you leave speculation to the media, where that kindo of fool nonsense belongs?

I was doing some very demanding flying right out of high school, and I know a lot of others who did the same. I got fairly sick of hearing the prejudices that came to bear against an eighteen year old pilot then, too. Still sick of it today. Fortunately, those who whine about an eighteen year old or a twenty year old are the same ones who puff out their chest and think their ATP or their hours mean anything but nothing...opinions like that don't count for much, anyway.

Aircraft are machines, like cars, and people get hurt or killed in them every day. It happened yesterday, it happens today, it will happen tomorrow. Don't spend so much effort trying to seek blame, speculate, or look for answers when there are no facts in evidence.

Three people are dead. Sad. Tragic. I hope their families find the comfort they'll surely seek, and I hope they can one day move on. Like us all.

If this event is a soul-shaking shocker, then surely it's because you're new in the industry. If you are, you should know that you'll see it happen a lot more over the years, certainly to a few (or more) people that you know. You'll never get used to it, always dread hearing about it, but will come to accept it for what it is. Part of life, part of the industry, and inevitable somewhere, some time.

Yes, the lady in the picture was certainly young, attractive, and probably had some great prospects in here future life. Prospects she won't get to enjoy now. No doubt the same may be said for the others on the airplane, and great condolences are to be had for each family member and friend associated with any one of them. As far as I can tell from the limited tidbits available, that's about all that can be said for this event at the present time.

Speculation is crass and unwarranted. Don't go there.

 

[ozpilot]

Well said Avbug. People seem to miss the fact that that a 421 has a full set of dual controls and reports say she had a instructor flying with her, and yet the media focus is on her and her "inexperience".

In the absense of facts its easy to lay the blame for an aircraft accident at the feet of the crew. Of course the crew cannot defend themselves because their usually dead. God bless their souls.