Central Air crash in Michigan?

[ubpilot]

To pass the check ride or the getting hired is one thing, but can the pilot really handle the real hard core IFR down to minimum in the icing condition is a totally different story. You have to understand that these GRR, YIP, STL, STP based pilots have to deal with the nasty weather through out the entire winter. If you go through the SIC program, the chance of getting hired is very good.

 

[CaravanMan]

Is this their PFT SIC program that somebody mentioned?

No. I flew with PIC trainees this whole week on my runs. They are not paying a dime to sit there. They sit in the right seat and observe, and I explain as much about route flying as I can. It's really beneficial for them because, naturally, during training you're not going to be out in the nasty weather; you're not going to be trying to fill out paperwork in the plane while training, etc. All of the PIC trainees that have flown with me, or any other route pilot for that matter, to observe could not stop talking about how helpful those observation flights are. They were thrilled at how much they learned after just a few hours on a run. They see how much your workload increases once you get out there on your own. While I have them there I try to give them as much info as I can on winter ops, ice flying, thunderstorms and the like, because for many, yes, this IS an entry level job and they're not going to have that experience until their first time in it.

With that said, I'll back up what NoPax has said about the training. I felt very comfortable with the training I received, and NO one will be turned loose until they are ready. I was turned loose as soon as my training was complete, but I had already been flying 135 freight for a while, so I was ready. I have seen others come thru that were not quite as experienced, and the company did not send them out alone on a whim, but rather they have other seasoned pilots fly the line with them until they are ready. Getting back to the 135 minimums posted above...1200TT, etc...it's amazing, but our pilots just starting out here have two or three times the flight time than the Wonderboys they are letting into the right seat of your RJs.

JT and MB are both very nice guys and very smart pilots with years and years of experience. The compassion and genuine feelings I have seen from the both of them, especially in the past few days, is amazing. They really do care about their pilots and do everything they can to make sure we are all safe. Unfortunately, accidents do happen. It's the nature of what we do guys.

 

[Tug Driver]

I agree with both sides. First off the commander is super easy to fly. And if you follow the profile its pretty easy to shoot approaches in as well. I like not having to mess with the fuel system and I like it that if your gear doesnt extend, all you have to do is slow the airplane down below 100 and the nitrogen bottle will take care of the rest. I like that all cockpits are the same layout. And I like that there is only one fuel cap. I like the TKS system. I was in the clouds for 15 minutes last week and my non protected areas had 2 inch ice horns, but my wings and tail were clear. I like that when I squawk something its fixed by GRR mechanics. I also think that the commanders handle great on one engine.

I my training consisted of about 7 hours of flight time with the CP and about 10 hours of ride along with BQ. I think that some of the training areas could be revised to include more detail in areas such as: part 135 rules and wx req, alternate ap req, and hazmat, ect... I had a roomate who flew for Airnet and I had to laugh, because his training for the baron consisted of 6 weeks worth of ground school and sim time, while I was out on the line within 6 days.

I have had many "firsts" during this job. When I ferried the airplane up to Michigan, that was the first time I had every flown solo in a twin. This summer was my first time shooting approches to mins. As an instructor I set very high personal min's for the added safety with students so basically if it was 200 and 1/2 for training, well I think Ill grab some coffee. It was my first time dealing with TS and the strikefinder, which led to my another "first" of getting my a$$ kicked my some of the worst turbulence of my life. Last week I was flying with winds sustained at 30 G 40, in IMC during an approach with LLWS. The night Scott died was the first snow of the season. It was my first time getting to preflight in the hangar and it was the first time that I had to reference my app plates to see if I could even legally t.o. from that runway with the current wx cond. It was the first time that I was issued MU reports or was requested to give a braking action pirep. It was the first time I had taxied thru such deep snow drifts in near whiteout conditions. It was amazing. You just don't have those kind of experiences as a CFI, at least I didn't.

What this accident has shown me is that I am not invulnerable. I am not a super pilot. Its been an unfortunet reality check that you can never get too comfortable. I do not know anything more about the cause of the accident and I do not care to speculate. However, I have seen a photo of the scene and I can honestly say that I wish I hadn't.

I attended Scotts funeral today in Chicago. I was a very nice service with more than 100 people in attendance. The downside was that it was all conducted in a forgien language (to me), so I was not able to understand anything. Scott was a really great guy and in my opinion a great pilot. I flew with him as recently as last week and I noticed nothing that would lead me to believe that pilot error played a role.

As you can see Ive had a lot of new experiences in the last 5 months, and the experience of losing a fellow pilot/friend is not one that I ever want to experience again. I know that I can hack it single pilot IFR but Im not sure that I really want to anymore. I just feel sick.

 

[Slippery Wing]

Stick with it, Tug Driver. If you wish to make a long career out of aviation, this will not be the last fellow aviator you see fly West.

The best thing you can do is get back in the seat and go fly.

Very good post, by the way.

Regards,

Slippery Wing

 

[ACT700]

...
I didnt refer to all freight dogs as whores. Just those that fly for 1500/mo and pay half their health.
...

That would make Regional Airline Pilots what?! hhmm, ..., pimps, maybe?

 

[NoPax]

That would make Regional Airline Pilots what?! hhmm, ..., pimps, maybe?

I've respected your posts in the past, especially with regards to the MU-2, but can we keep things civil in here.

We can disagree with RJPilott without be disagreeable. I've had to take many deep breaths after an 'aaaAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!' before posting in response to some of his posts.

Its an entry level job, with entry level pay - like a lot of regional airlines FO pay in the first and second years.

As a side note, I see you guys (ACT) are hiring FOs now - I hope it pays off. Almost interviewed with you a couple months back (wife didn't want to move up north tho)

 

[CUBMAN]

Sorry to hear about this fellow aviator from Central Air who perished recently. No heart goes out to his family. What I want to say though is that ubpilot has said what a lot of others have been saying for a long time about maintenance at the out-stations. Lack of maintenance is more like it. Perhaps the aircraft is airworthy when it leaves Kansas City but if it breaks at an out-station you are SOL. And whats up with people calling CASW a family. Nobody in my family ever p*ssed down my back before like when I was a member of the CASW "family".

 

[CUBMAN]

Sorry about my lack of proof read, I meant to say that my heart goes out to the family. This was a bad oversight and I mean no disrespect to the mans family.

 

[CaravanMan]

If things are broken on any Part 135 airplane, squawk it up, it must be addressed. My experience is that usually a phonecall to maintenance (free) to let them know will solve the problem. If it can't be fixed by outsourced maintenance, write it up in the maintenance log, so that the next pilot can see the maintenance history of the airplane - and that would also ground the airplane until it's fixed.

This says it all about flying a broken airplane. If you fly something that is unairworthy it's your own fault. I'm MKC based, and yes we get maintenance done there, and the planes are running well.

I have also spent weeks away from home covering routes in MI, NE, and OK. Occasionally I did have a problem with the airplane. My DG went out once, did I fly? No. I grounded that airplane, hopped in the one sitting next to it, and 30 minutes later I was enroute. I told the company and they flew a mechanic out from GRR and put a new one in and that plane was ready to fly in a couple hours after I had written it up.

If there is a serious problem with the plane, ground it and do not fly it. This goes for ANY operation out there, 135 or not. It's your butt on the line. I have flown a plane here or there that had minor problems, like a radio was going out, or the heater crapped out, or there was a small hydraulic leak. Usually, what happens in that instance is, if it's indeed a minor problem, that pilot will fly the plane on his route until he meets another MKC based pilot on his run, they will switch a/c and it will get back to MKC (or another repair facility) for repairs. In the instances with a small hydraulic leak, I took a bottle of extra fluid along, just in case. I never had a problem and the plane made it back for maintenance, and, as NoPax said, the nitrogen blow down bottle would get your gear down even if you had a complete hydraulic failure.

There is an MEL in the airplane too, refer to that.

 

[NoPax]

as NoPax said, the nitrogen blow down bottle would get your gear down even if you had a complete hydraulic failure.

There is an MEL in the airplane too, refer to that.

Actually that was Tug!

Yes there is an MEL. You can defer some maintenance like a heater (if its the middle of Summer), and other stuff too. Once you defer it its got XX number of days to be fixed, depending on what it is.

I have no idea where CUBMAN flew, but I'm outstationed and if I have a problem that the guys here can't fix, and its deferrable, I swap it with the OK pilot, who swaps it with the pilot from MKC, and it makes it's way back there. Otherwise parts are overnighted, and the mechanics use the mx manual in the airplane to fix it.

I've had no problem with Mx, more problems with how I see the airplane I'm going to get in a couple of weeks being operated by one or two pilots.