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trainer8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Posts
596
Formerly on the ALPA web board, but deleted by ALPA:


Did you know that Date of Hire seniority integration is now mandated by the law President Bush signed in December of 2007 when two airlines with different unions merge??? Don’t you think that is critical information considering that Parker has stated another merger is likely and he recently secured a golden parachute clause for key management? Here are details; pass this along to everyone who might be interested:
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Fellow pilots,

We are often asked the question, "What happens if we have a merger with United or Northwest or someone else?"

On December 26th President Bush signed H.R. 2764 into Law. This Bill guarantees all airline employees involved in a merger seniority integration under Allegheny Mohawk labor protections, IF both groups of covered employees ARE NOT represented by the same union.

This means in order to reap the benefit of HR 2764, as shown below, we must remove ourselves from ALPA. Clearly, ALPA does not want you to know this; a law has been signed that affects every pilot in the United States, yet not a word from ALPA. We can only surmise that ALPA understands that the pilots will realize that while they're in ALPA they have a merger policy that disregards and even penalizes longevity, yet once outside ALPA, they will be protected by "fair and equitable" language which historically uses date of hire as a starting point.

Please take a moment to read the relevant portion of this law, and draw your own conclusions.



<FONT face=Arial><FONT size=3><FONT color=#003399>President Bush Signs H.R. 2764 into Law
"Today, I signed into law H.R. 2764, legislation that will fund the Federal Government within the reasonable and responsible spending levels I proposed -- without raising taxes and without the most objectionable policy changes considered by the Congress. This law provides a down payment for the resources our troops need, without arbitrary timelines for withdrawal. The Congress should quickly take action next year to provide the remainder of the funding needed by our troops.
I am disappointed in the way the Congress compiled this legislation, including abandoning the goal I set early this year to reduce the number and cost of earmarks by half. Instead, the Congress dropped into the bill nearly 9,800 earmarks that total more than $10 billion. These projects are not funded through a merit-based process and provide a vehicle for wasteful Government spending.
There is still more to be done to rein in Government spending. In February I will submit my budget proposal for fiscal year 2009, which will once again restrain spending, keep taxes low, and continue us on a path towards a balanced budget. I look forward to working with the Congress in the coming year to ensure taxpayer dollars are spent wisely.
Finally, this legislation contains certain provisions similar to those found in prior appropriations bills passed by the Congress that might be construed to be inconsistent with my Constitutional responsibilities. To avoid such potential infirmities, the executive branch will interpret and construe such provisions in the same manner as I have previously stated in regard to similar provisions. "
GEORGE W. BUSH
THE WHITE HOUSE,

December 26, 2007.
# # #
H. R. 2764— page 539 (Note: this bill is 631 pages long; we have included the relevant portion here. Comments added.)
(c) AIRPORT AND AIRWAY TRUST FUND EXPENDITURE
AUTHORITY.—
SEC. 117. LABOR INTEGRATION. (a) LABOR INTEGRATION.—With respect to any covered transaction involving two or more covered air carriers that results in the combination of crafts or classes that are subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective provisions imposed by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger (as published at 59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to the integration of covered employees of the covered air carriers; except that— (1) if the same collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent’s internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the requirements of this section; (i.e., if a pilot belongs to ALPA merger policy will be one that disregards longevity entirely) and (2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement that may be applicable to the terms of integration involving covered employees of a covered air carrier shall not be affected by the requirements of this section as to the employees covered by that agreement, so long as those provisions allow for the protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny- Mohawk provisions (i.e., "fair and equitable" language which historically uses date of hire as a starting point.)
(b) DEFINITIONS.—In this section, the following definitions apply:
(1) AIR CARRIER.—The term ‘‘air carrier’’ means an air carrier that holds a certificate issued under chapter 411 of title 49, United States Code.
(2) COVERED AIR CARRIER.—The term ‘‘covered air carrier’’ means an air carrier that is involved in a covered transaction.
(3) COVERED EMPLOYEE.—The term ‘‘covered employee’’ means an employee who—(A) is not a temporary employee; and (B) is a member of a craft or class that is subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.).
(4) COVERED TRANSACTION.—The term ‘‘covered transaction’’ (A) a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier; and which means— (B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of— (i) 50 percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of title 11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or (ii) 50 percent or more (by value) of the assets of the air carrier.
H. R. 2764—540
(c) APPLICATION.—This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.
(d) EFFECTIVENESS OF PROVISION.—This section shall become effective on the date of enactment of this Act and shall continue in effect in fiscal years after fiscal year 2008.
 
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Ummm... fair and equitable DOES NOT always equal date of hire.

Airline A has a narrowbody first officer on reserve hired 15 years ago. This first officer cannot hold narrowbody first officer bid line, let alone captain. Airline A is obviously very stagnant.

Airline B has a narrowbody captain hired 10 years ago. This captain has a solid captain bid line. Airline B has been a growing airline.

Airline B decides to purchase or merge with Airline A to become Airline C.

How do you merge these two? Date of hire? Seat? Date of birth? Relative seniority?
 
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Fairness??? You are talking to a guy ( tranny 8 ) that flew up from Alg but now think the flow thru should be cancelled. I won't even go into what Binding means...
 
Ummm... fair and equitable DOES NOT always equal date of hire.

Airline A has a narrowbody first officer on reserve hired 15 years ago. This first officer cannot hold narrowbody first officer bid line, let alone captain. Airline A is obviously very stagnant.

Airline B has a narrowbody captain hired 10 years ago. This captain has a solid captain bid line. Airline B has been a growing airline.

Airline B decides to purchase or merge with Airline A to become Airline C.

How do you merge these two? Date of hire? Seat? Date of birth? Relative seniority?

Relative seniority. If you were 60% seniority before a merger and 60% seniority after a merger, how can you say that you've gained or lost anything? QOL, bases, upgrades, aircraft are all about seniority. Anyone who pleads for DOH is simply looking for a windfall to make up for what his/her present airline has been unable to provide in the past. That's just the life of a pilot, sorry, you make a decision to accept an offer somewhere and when you retire you'll know if it was the best available airline for you. You can't get half way through your career, realize that you are in a dead end and may actually retire without the chance to upgrade in your base, and then see an opportunity to make up for lost time by merging with a growing, hiring, "more junior" airline than you. Sorry, I don't buy it.
 
All the bold and bright colors make my eyes hurt. I feel like I'm reading one of those chemtrails websites or one of jetflier's peak oil posts.

Moving on.
 
Ummm... fair and equitable DOES NOT always equal date of hire.

Airline A has a narrowbody first officer on reserve hired 15 years ago. This first officer cannot hold narrowbody first officer bid line, let alone captain. Airline A is obviously very stagnant.

Airline B has a narrowbody captain hired 10 years ago. This captain has a solid captain bid line. Airline B has been a growing airline.

Airline B decides to purchase or merge with Airline A to become Airline C.

How do you merge these two? Date of hire? Seat? Date of birth? Relative seniority?

the majority of Us Airways east pilots, including Trainer8, have lost touch with reality. there is no point in trying to engage in a reasonable argument. They have become unhinged. Nowhere in there does it say DOH but when you throw in 'fair and equitable' language they assume the only fair and equitable provision would be DOH. The USAPA clowns feel it is only right that a furloughee should be recalled senior to lineholding captains. There will never be an agreement on fair integration which is what led to binding arbitration. Unfortunately an agreement is no good if it is made with a group completely lacking integrity.

on a side note i like the yellow USAPA lanyards. What a fitting color.
 
The provision would have major consequences for a SWA merger or acquisition. SWA, fair and equitable in an integration, so much for stapling.

The suffering by Lance captains and FO's who's chance of upgrade have been extended a minumum of five years will indefinitely continue.

So much for SWAPA's lies of not harming the group.
 
Trainer8 (and a few others): you misunderstand the new law. It mandates a process (Allegheny/Mohawk) ending in arbitration. In other words, it seeks to make ALPA Merger Policy the policy for all unions. This prevents unions like the APA from imposing thier will on future merging carriers.

SEC. 117. LABOR INTEGRATION.

(a) LABOR INTEGRATION- With respect to any covered transaction involving two or more covered air carriers that results in the combination of crafts or classes that are subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective provisions imposed by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger (as published at 59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to the integration of covered employees of the covered air carriers; except that--

(1) if the same collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent's internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the requirements of this section; and

(2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement that may be applicable to the terms of integration involving covered employees of a covered air carrier shall not be affected by the requirements of this section as to the employees covered by that agreement, so long as those provisions allow for the protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk provisions.

(b) DEFINITIONS- In this section, the following definitions apply:

(1) AIR CARRIER- The term `air carrier' means an air carrier that holds a certificate issued under chapter 411 of title 49, United States Code.

(2) COVERED AIR CARRIER- The term `covered air carrier' means an air carrier that is involved in a covered transaction.

(3) COVERED EMPLOYEE- The term `covered employee' means an employee who--

(A) is not a temporary employee; and

(B) is a member of a craft or class that is subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.).

(4) COVERED TRANSACTION- The term `covered transaction' means--

(A) a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier; and which

(B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of--

(i) 50 percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of title 11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or

(ii) 50 percent or more (by value) of the assets of the air carrier.

(c) APPLICATION- This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.

(d) EFFECTIVENESS OF PROVISION- This section shall become effective on the date of enactment of this Act and shall continue in effect in fiscal years after fiscal year 2008.
 
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