CE-650 vs. 800XP

[CapnVegetto]

Got a little time in the CE-650, and I think it's a POS. It's a terrible runway hog, not overly impressive in the climb, and if you lose an engine, you'd better have an interstate in front of you. Don't know much about the Hawker, but the only thing I've ever heard guys gripe about is the slow speed. The CE-650 will outrun the heck out of it, (it's about an .82-83 airplane), but I think the Hawker is probably better overall, though.

 

[Rick1128]

Many 135 operators use Hawkers for the same reasons that they used Lear 20's. In my opinion the Hawker is the Lear 25 of the Mid cabin class. If it starts, you're going. In other words, it tends to be quite reliable. I operated a 600 fan for two years with No on-staff maintenance with dispatch reliability in the upper 90 percentile.

As for speed. At first our people kept calling it too slow. But over a six month period they all wanted it instead of our Lear 25. For us it was what my boss called a 9 minute airplane. For every hour a trip took in the Lear, the Hawker took 1 hour 9 minutes.

While they both use almost the same amount of runway for takeoff, the Hawker uses much less for landing. And for 135, the landing distance is what hurts you the most. Neither of them can match a Lear 25 in the single engine department. The both are quite close there also.

What it really comes down to is what the boss wants. He's the one who is sign the check. All you can do is find out what the facts are and mske suggestions.

Good luck.

 

[some_dude]

The Astra cabin is just too narrow, no matter how many (or few) people you have in it. And, let's get G100Driver over here to discuss dispatch reliability!

I have never flown either a C-VII or a Hawker. We did some comparisons for my last employer, before they decided they didn't need any airplane, and the Hawker generally came out as the better choice. I don't recall the specifics, though.

How about an Astra? It'll beat both planes coast to coast. Lots of luggage room. Built like a tank. You can get an early 90's vintage relatively cheap. It has a smaller cabin than the Hawker (can't remember cabin specs on the 7) but how often will you be filling the seats?

 

[HMR]

The Astra cabin is just too narrow, no matter how many (or few) people you have in it.

All right... you got me on that one. If you're hauling around a bunch of Krispy-Kreme munchin' lardwagons, the Hawker is a better fit.

PS- If anyone's looking for a real sweet Astra; I just happen to know a PT91 dept that's getting ready to sell theirs.

 

[FracCapt]

Baggage isn't a huge issue, our pax are used to flying on the Ultra and don't carry much as it is. If they want to carry more, they'll usually ship it beforehand anyway. They are very considerate (I'm sure we'll be jinxed now).

The baggage area is the only sore spot I have run into with people that are used to flying a Citation(III, VI, or VII). Also, something to think about.....baggage space can vary greatly on Hawkers based on how the airplane was delivered. The forward area is the same, but there are 2(sometimes only 1) aft "crew baggage" areas that may not be heavily used(by crew) for guys that fly day trips or spend just a couple days on the road at a time. Other than that, the Hawker 800XP has much better range, albeit a bit slower. Most XP's will do .78 or better all day long....as long as you don't climb immediately to max altitude for weight/conditions. Step climb it. That's what they like. I typically climb to 360 or 370 immediately even if I takeoff at MGTOW, and within a couple minutes accelerate to .78(sorry, I meant .75 - company policy ) then pull the power back.

Just don't even think about doing Hawaii trips in the XP.....if you want some info on that, look for the thread "Hawker to Hawaii"...