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CE-650 vs. 800XP

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Your wife's boyfriend
Dec 1, 2001
Our company is talking about a mid-sized cabin, and considering the Citation 7 or the 800XP. We have an Ultra now, and they want to keep in the Citation family. I think that's closed-minded.

I've heard the 7 is a mx pig. I know alot of guys that fly 800XPs and they don't have as many mx problems. The 7 is alot faster, but how's the range? It seems the XP has a better range, but doesn't have the speed.

The airplane would probably fly between 350 and 450 hours per year. The guys I know that fly the XP fly them quite a bit more than we would, and they seem to hold up better.

It seems the XP is a better coast-to-coast airplane. I know it's only coast-to-coast some (or most) of the time. A Falcon 50 would be better, but I don't think that'll happen.

Any comments on either airplane? The good, bad and ugly? Thanks alot....

I think the 800XP has a substantial range advantage over the Citation VII... I think I would go with the Hawker myself, I have never flown one, but I have flown a Citation III and it wasn't overly impressive...
Keeping in mind I have not flown a C7, my thought are the 800 is much more aircraft for the buck. Much better runway performance. Rugged airframe. Big comfortable cabin. Negative for the 800: TKS, MX schedule that can be a little intense if you are not perpared for it. If I remember right the C7 still has that hump in the aisle about 3/4's of the way back. And everyone I have talked with who would have knowledge of the both airframes tells me that the C7 airframe is kind of rinky-dink compared to the 800.
Both are good machines. when I researched the two, a similarly equipped XP in the same year vintage will go a couple mil. more. (unless that has changed) DOC will be less on the Cessna. If the surveys are true product support will be better on the 7 as well. Baggage is much better in the 7, but cabin is better in the hawker. Cockpit is MUCH bigger in the hawker. The 7 has more altitude capability, but the hawker has more range. It just depends on your budget / range profile. To the best of my knowledge both aircraft can do seats full tanks full, but the hawker needs more runway. Most of the guys I know running hawkers like to have a staff mechanic. Both aircraft fly very well from what I hear.

Net Jets will be flooding the market with 7's soon, so I would keep that in mind for resale value.
Are you considering new or used? The 50 might be worth a look as well as the 60 (both faster). I agree with the comments regarding the VII- long in the tooth and will drop in value like a ton of bricks soon.
How about an Astra? It'll beat both planes coast to coast. Lots of luggage room. Built like a tank. You can get an early 90's vintage relatively cheap. It has a smaller cabin than the Hawker (can't remember cabin specs on the 7) but how often will you be filling the seats?
Keep in mind SE climb performance when you look at runway numbers also.

I've talked to Hawker guys who tell me that 1 engine climb is nearly nonexistent unless close to empty...........pay close attention to this if you plan on doing any 135 flying (not sure if you are).

Don't know about the 7.....have you considered a soveriegn or excel?
from a charter sales prospective their is No comparison between the 7 and the 800xp. call around to any broker or sales rep and they can tell you the hawker sells. people recognize the name and product. i am not saying one is better than the other, but the hawker will clearly outsell the 7 in charter sales. it reminded me of the turbo prop sales competition between the merlin III and king air 200. the merlin is roomier and cheaper to operate but all people recognize in the sales department is king air, no matter how much you extolled the vitues of the merlin III. And as far as flooding the market with their 7's, doesn't net jets only have 15 of them? Buy the hawker.
sorry clapster, i realized this was a corporate thread and not a 135 thread, Dooooh! I would still buy the Hawker, we ran 3 of them for a part 91 company and had a great dispatch rate.
That's why I asked in the Corporate board, because you guys are running them and know what they can and cannot do.

We are a 135 company. The boss wants a mid, and it seems to me like the Hawker will sell trips better than a VII.

You all have confirmed what I've thought all along. The cabin and range are much better in the 800XP than a VII. When pax climb aboard, they don't care they are flying .83 versus .79. They want to make the trip non-stop. Baggage isn't a huge issue, our pax are used to flying on the Ultra and don't carry much as it is. If they want to carry more, they'll usually ship it beforehand anyway. They are very considerate (I'm sure we'll be jinxed now). The regulars know the Hawker name, and it will probably help sell the airplane.

Thanks for the input....


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