CC air guys....what happened over there?

[YMICFI]

Hey man, this is a thread about Colgan and Pinnacle, why are you talking about ASA and SkyWest? Jeez.[/quote]

Well played. We obviously wouldn't be the first this would happen to. Our pilots at Colgan need to understand the other examples out there like this. If they understand what will happen if the vote fails, they would vote yes.

 

[shamrock]

Yeah, the similarities of the respective situations struck me when I read your post.

Good luck to you guys.

 

[Fred Rogers]

It is. Tell you why they won't. They hope the ALPA vote fails and then they are able to whipsaw the two pilot groups in a race to the bottom.

ha ha.. is it THAT OBVIOUS????

I would think that management would JUMP at the opportunity to sign on to something that they have proposed.

SOMETHING SMELLS FISHY!!

VOTE YES!!!!!

 

[A350]

Yes....JO tried to whipsaw the groups. As soon as the CCAir guys would agree on a contract, he would take it off the table and add more concessions.

The main problem is DW refused to sign the contract and when push came to shove, the Mesa guys, who for months were coddling the CCAir guys with delusions of unity shoved them off a cliff. The CCAir operation was shut down. The CCAir pilots were out on the street.

Now, if you figure that in the end the CCAir guys were integrated and did have jobs, you are correct. I just wonder how much pepto bismol it would take to have to stomach losing your job "for the cause" and then having to wait two years to get your job back.

It wasn't the first time an ALPA group was or has been sacrificed at the altar of unionism....Anyone remember the Wien air pilots?

My hat is always off to the CCAir guys.

A350

 

[BoilerUP]

What were the payrates like at CC Air? I've heard those folks made more to fly a J-ball than others got flying Saabs and even RJs...

 

[foreverfo]

Looking at my first paystub from the Chicken as a newhire FO on the Jetscreamer in 1999 I was making $20.43/hour. If I recall, JO wanted FOs to take a paycut to $13/hr or something and become a EMB-145 base or something.

 

[J and E's Daddy]

I am also ex CCAIR. What happened to the Mighty Chicken Chicken? WE HAD THE BALLS to sand up to Ornstein and tell him no paycuts, no concessions and we will not whore ourselves out for the oppurtunity for growth. We injured his ego, so he pulled the plug on us. We were by far not an expensive airline or had high operating costs. We bruised JO's ego. So, he had no choice. If every regional would have taken notes and stood up to management, we wouldn't be in the situation we are in by being paid less as the costs of living have risen and we would have much more respect now instead of being looked down upon like just being skilled labor. Also the regionals wouldn't have shifted around all over the place, domiciles wouldn't have been disrupted and even ACA may have still been around today. We had a very dedicated bunch at CCAIR, we were mostly local Carolinians and working there (until JO showed up) was like one big huge party. When JO showed up, the job was no longer fun, and all he kept saying was he wasn't going to liquidate CCAIR. Nov 2002, Ornstein showed everyone he still can't tell the truth to save his life. If Mesa didn't take over (hostile takeover), I would probably would have stayed.

J and E's Daddy

Many at CCAIR remembered me as "Flash"

 

[FDJ2]

August 30, 2002
Court Upholds ALPA’s Rejection Of Concessionary Contract in CCAir Suit

CHARLOTTE, N.C.---A federal district court judge yesterday rejected efforts by Mesa Air Group to judicially impose a concessionary collective bargaining proposal for pilots at its CCAir subsidiary.

The suit was initially brought by a CCAir pilot and then joined by management after the president of the Air Line Pilots Association indicated he would not sign the proposed concessionary contract amendment. Although the proposal had been accepted by CCAir local union leaders and members, ALPA’s Constitution and By-laws requires that its president review and approve each collective bargaining agreement before it can be effective.

ALPA President Duane Woerth declined to approve the extremely concessionary proposal, which came in the context of an unbroken campaign of threats and intimidation by CCAir and Mesa Air Group to shut down the carrier if the pilots did not give up their existing agreement. President Woerth refused to approve the proposed agreement because it unjustifiably degraded pilot working conditions and offered no job security for CCAir pilots in return for the concessions. President Woerth also determined that the carrier’s management never demonstrated the need for the requested concessions and failed to show how the concessions would help save the carrier or the pilots’ jobs.

In denying a motion for a preliminary injunction which sought to order President Woerth to approve the concessionary proposal, Chief U.S. District Judge Graham C. Mullen agreed with ALPA that the requirement that its president review and approve collective bargaining agreements was well known to CCAir representatives and that there could be no collective bargaining agreement without that approval. Judge Mullen also noted that the rejected proposed agreement would likely make no immediate difference to the status of CCAir and its pilots, observing that their fate rests in the decisions of the carrier’s sole customer, US Airways, as to the flying it will permit CCAir to perform on its behalf.

 

[foreverfo]

Wasn't it Grant with his cane that sold the Chicken to JO? INT was shutdown by JO because that was an "old Piedmont" commuter haven to CLT. All sorts of other places were such down by JO in eastern NC. I remember hauling around a mainline CP between CLT-HKY! Does USAir even serve SOP anymore? What a golfers haven that was, brought full planes year round almost.

 

[J and E's Daddy]

Wasn't it Grant with his cane that sold the Chicken to JO? INT was shutdown by JO because that was an "old Piedmont" commuter haven to CLT. All sorts of other places were such down by JO in eastern NC. I remember hauling around a mainline CP between CLT-HKY! Does USAir even serve SOP anymore? What a golfers haven that was, brought full planes year round almost.

HKY and RWI have no more airline service

SOP and ISO are served by ASA.

 

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

Jacob and Emma's Daddy. Didn't you do nothing at CCAIR but complain and b*tch? Just kidding. I hope the family is well. Hey gotta give you credit the day you got into it with 9-5 and #2 you told them, in the old D Con crewroom where they could go and what they can do with themselves.

 

[foreverfo]

Jacob and Emma's Daddy. Didn't you do nothing at CCAIR but complain and b*tch? Just kidding. I hope the family is well. Hey gotta give you credit the day you got into it with 9-5 and #2 you told them, in the old D Con crewroom where they could go and what they can do with themselves.

Are you talking about the old D Con crew room with the huge glass walled smoking room facing the BA 777(facing the approach end of 23?)? The same crew room that Mesa crews would microwave some of the nastiest smelling things known to man and then DH for half price? I miss that crew room.

 

[J and E's Daddy]

Drill Sgt.
I am still around. PM me if you don't have my cellphone number. (I have had the same cell # for the past nine years). I did get into it with 9-5 and #2. But I went to High School with #2 and he has known me way back when I was thinner and full head of hair, so I was sort of able to get away with it. Plus I am now nine years older and learned to control my temper. The issue at hand was a 16 hour duty day for the third straight day as I was starting to wear down. You knew how RSVs could get used and abused over there when we were short handed.
And as for Forever FO, yes, it was the old D cOn crew room with the lovely view of Nigel's B777 and I was trying to forget about that nasty micorwave in the crewroom. I remember when they got the cable TV, and one morning I was watching A & E back when the Three Stooges were on and 9-5 walked by and saw me watching and shook his head. I commented I was watching slapstick comedy of three guys named Pete, Kenny and Ed.
Moe as Pete. Kenny as Larry. And Ed as Curley.

 

[foreverfo]

As the 3 stooges are classic comedy, you old schoolers were more classic! Nothing like having a good laugh at the expense of your CPs and they laughing as well with no harm done.

9-5 hired me, could of fired me but I swear loved me at the same time! Hope Ed is well wherever he is. What a great CP!

 

[Godfather]

Hey ex-chicken drivers! Furr-b*rger put up a group on Yahoo called "CCAir friends" Lot of ol' peeps up on that site. PM me if you need it.

Alf

 

[Sig]

The issue at hand was a 16 hour duty day for the third straight day as I was starting to wear down.

Sweet Jesus! Before anyone claims that isn't possible- it sure as heck is (don't assume you start at the same time every day)! How in theeee hayull did you stay awake?

Don't tell me they didn't give you the comp rest! Was that the issue?

 

[ual321]

CC Air fought hard and got an industry leading 19 seat aircraft payscale. Ornstein bought them out, liquidated them, and dumped the pilots out on the street. ALPA didn't fight for their integration into the Mesa seniority list. This is how I understand it- I never worked there.

NoNoNo....That was WestAir/United Express in 1994-1998, out in Calif. This is how I understand it and yes I worked there. Good old Mesa....

 

[Fred Rogers]

NoNoNo....That was WestAir/United Express in 1994-1998, out in Calif. This is how I understand it and yes I worked there. Good old Mesa....

So wait a minute, I'd like an official tally. How many people (airlines) has JO screwed over?

 

[J and E's Daddy]

So wait a minute, I'd like an official tally. How many people (airlines) has JO screwed over?

JO screwed over those at Westair and CCAIR. Even a previous post about what the Hon. Graham Muellen said that it won't save CCAIR, when a few tried to sue ALPA. JO got what he wanted when Mesa conquered CCAIR. CLT gate space!!! and a way to get the RJs and operations on the East Coast. JO had no intention to keep CCAIR around after their agreement with US Airways was up. And like Westair, he didn't recognize CCAIR as Mesa employees. He merely used CCAIR to whipsaw the pilot groups to get what he wanted. Enough said, it only raises my blood pressure when I think about it.

 

[J and E's Daddy]

Sweet Jesus! Before anyone claims that isn't possible- it sure as heck is (don't assume you start at the same time every day)! How in theeee hayull did you stay awake?

Don't tell me they didn't give you the comp rest! Was that the issue?

That's how I got my rest, called in fatigued.