Cathay Pacific

[DarnNearaJet]

Why would anyone want to be labeled an IFALPA super-scab is beyond me.

I guess some folks see an opportunity somewhere and could care less about their profession.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Re: Cathay

Whats the chance of somone going for the s/o position.

2100/360ME

ROFLMAO.

Spoolup is why pilots are their own worst enemy.

 

[CCDiscoB]

I agree. One thing I've learned from months of reading this site, it’s "whatever it takes for a type rating." "I'm on a scab list, so what, I'll have a 744 type."

These guys need to get out more, ask, listen and learn. They have no idea just how incredibly horrible it would be to a career to have such a blazing, neon, scarlet letter attached to your name.

 

[Tref]

UNITED STATES CONGRESS ALERTED TO CATHAY PACIFIC PILOT DISPUTE

ALPA Warns U.S. Government Officials of the Potential for Eroding Labour Standards Worldwide

WASHINGTON, DC—This week, the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), the world’s largest pilots’ union, warned the United States Congress about the eroding standards for workers in Hong Kong that threaten to dismantle existing standards for labour relations worldwide. The current dispute between Cathay Pacific Airways and its pilots’ union, the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association (HKAOA), was cited as a prime example of this potential for global harm.

In a letter to several U.S. Senators and Representatives, ALPA asked the U.S. Congress to raise the dispute with Hong Kong Government officials. It further questioned Cathay Pacific’s consistent disrespect for accepted international labour conventions and the Hong Kong Government’s subsequent failure to intervene and end the impasse, now the longest running labour dispute in Asia’s history.

"The United States has always been at the forefront of pursuing improved rights and protection for workers. This is not limited to employees in the United States, but around the world as well. Consequently, ALPA is attempting to draw U.S. Government attention to the deplorable situation happening in Hong Kong at the hands of Cathay Pacific Airways. We believe that our government should be gravely concerned about a situation that is, in effect, serving to erode the standards for workers in the aviation industry throughout the world and in the U.S. We have urged Congress to help put an end to these shameful practices," said Captain Duane Woerth, President of ALPA.

Cathay Pacific Airways’ major shareholder is the international Swire Group, based in England, which also has major U.S. interests.

To date, 20 international labour organizations, representing 27 million workers around the world, have urged Cathay Pacific executives and Hong Kong Government officials to resolve this dispute. The AFL-CIO, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and the International Federation of Air Line Pilots Associations (IFALPA) have each expressed their concerns to the Hong Kong Government by specifically asking the Commissioner of Labour to take action. Despite repeated inquiries by these labour groups the Hong Kong Government has ignored all such requests.

Cathay Pacific’s use of tactics such as unjust termination and unauthorized contract revisions are illegal in the U.S. and throughout much of the rest of the world. The unwarranted firing of 51 pilots last July resulted in 49 lawsuits in four countries: Australia, Hong Kong, the United Kingdom and the United States. The HKAOA meanwhile has repeatedly attempted to open the lines of communication with company management to discuss these issues, but has been rebuffed on each and every occasion.

"We are grateful for the support of ALPA and its attempts to bring this matter to the attention of the U.S. Government," said John Findlay, HKAOA General Secretary. He continued, "Sadly, the deck is very much stacked against employees in Hong Kong. Our lack of protection allows companies such as Cathay Pacific to operate according to any set of principles they choose. This is a worrying practice for a company that also seeks to gain further access to the U.S with developing international agreements. No matter how many times we ask management to come back to the negotiating table, we are rebuffed. Now with the possible involvement of U.S. Government officials, we hope that Cathay Pacific management will realize the international embarrassment that this is causing our company and Hong Kong, and finally agree to sit down to talk."

 

[Dieterly]

The United States has always been at the forefront of pursuing improved rights and protection for workers.

Hmm.. 3 years at Mesa I managed to get 13 days of vacation (into my vacation bank), never managed to turn any of it into real vacation days. If they call that imroved rights then I wonder what un-improved rights are. Don't even get me started how they fired people at will (before ALPA came on the property). Again, is that beeing at the forefront?

 

[edy]

You know Tref, I have been at CX for nearly 7 years now, and I have never heard a CX pilot speak the way you do. What dates were you with the company.

If you were in fact an employee, then you would also know that many of us here, key word being many of us, disagree with this ban.

This does not mean I did not loose a couple of co-workers who were friends, as many of them are from NA where I was once based. It does not mean I don't think we need better pilot- management relations, but what airline doesn't? If you were in fact with us, you would, one would think, know more about the situation, which you seem to know nothing about. All you do is get defensive, and don't reply rationally.

I have not accepted promotion yet, many have. Those that have, indeed, have replaced their friends. The ban is unfair to newcomers who only are helping expansion. You should know this as a supposed x-employee with friends in the company. If we are to do something about the situation, what is happening is not it.

 

[Tref]

Hmmm, all I did was post something from the ALPA website. I guess they have no idea what's happening at CX either?! Oh, there I go being defensive again. It’s funny how people react that way when they are accused of lying.

I was at CX for more than three years in the late 90's. The only thing that bothered me more than the way mgmt treated people was the lack of unity of the pilots. I do, however, understand how ex-aus-dispute pilots are scared to death. Lucky for me, I could move back to the USA.

As far as friends at CX goes, I still have many and none that I have spoken with are against the ban. In fact one has told a life long friend that he would never speak to him again if he accepted a job at CX.

My friends at CX understand that what's happening is not only wrong, but that virtually anyone could be fired next. They also understand that anyone who ignores the ban is an IFALPA scab.

The only thing sadder than watching mgmt screw the pilots is seeing other pilots screw the pilots. You don't seem to mind. Kinda snuck in on the freighters anyway, huh? You know I always defended guys that came in from the freighter fleet while some were calling you all scabs. Was I wrong?

PS. Speaking of irrational:

You said, "I have not accepted promotion yet, many have. Those that have, indeed, have replaced their friends. The ban is unfair to newcomers who only are helping expansion."

Ummm, it wasn't just Captains that were fired, and anyone taking a pilot job at CX while any of the 49ers is on the street is replacing one of the 49ers. Isn't that more than a little unfair to them?

It's people like you who allow CX mgmt to get away with the terrible things they do. One of these days it could be you on the street wondering what the fck just happened while someone else is taking your job. Maybe you ought to think about that for awhile, instead of just dwelling on how the ban is keeping you from your command.

 

[BigFlyr]

My friends at CX understand that what's happening is not only wrong, but that virtually anyone could be fired next. They also understand that anyone who ignores the ban is an IFALPA scab.



You said, "I have not accepted promotion yet, many have. Those that have, indeed, have replaced their friends. The ban is unfair to newcomers who only are helping expansion."

Interesting thread...

I was not aware of the problem at CX until just recently. The views from those that are against the newhire Ban at CX is strikingly familiar to those that stayed at EAL during the strike...

Unfortunately, there will be a steady supply of airline pilot wannabees who will take advantage of this situation.

 

[maddog]

As a former CX pilot from N America, I would have to agree with Tref on many of his points. I left Cx during one of the darkest times in the late 1990's. A massive sick-out was taking its toll and management was hellbent on spending millions breaking the association. Our demands were not unreasonable, yet the company pissed away money fighting us for months. Now as I sit furloughed from a US major, I am still comfortable with my decision to resign 3 years ago. Things have not gotten better for the Cathay pilots since I have left and CX will not be happy till they treat the pilots like Singapore Airlines pilots or worse. That is a fact....

They will get the folks to join. Just offer a 1000 hour pilot a job in a 747 and they will be lining up. IFALPA ban or not.

 

[Rick1128]

Maddog,

Unfortunately you are correct that Cathy Pacific will in all likelihood get the pilots it needs. And it will be younger pilots who have no memory of what happened to those who crossed the line at companies like Wein, Eastern and United. Just ask those guys how great their careers have been since then. Not real good.

It is expected of Chinese companies to treat their employees in that manner. Yes, HK is part of China. It is suppose to be a special economic area, but do you really believe that? China is a country that openly flaunts international agreements on prison labor, worker health and safety, patents and copyrights. Do you really expect them to comply with a contract with a measly labor union?