Cathay Pacific. "The real story"

[Cathay747400]

If you get hired you go one of two routes; Senior F/O on the freighter or S/O on the pax fleet. We have two routes for S/O's. Ab initio or direct entry. We have some guys hired as S/O's that were 73 capt's at Ansett, so I was told. They wanted seniority and took the first slot. The rest of the S/O's have mixed backgrounds. The ab initio are no different than say Lufthansa or Japan or All Nippon. They go through a rigirous selection and then to Australia for like a year or more. I tell you though, I met a lot of the Ab initio guy's and I know there is no way I would have made it through what they had to go through, I mean holy hell. So Cathay has many ways of of entry, All are fair. It is the greatest job all in all. Major growth again and we are breaking records for passenger and freight carried.

Again I say the training is tough. Checkrides are tough. But If I can do it anyone can. So apply, that's it.

PLK
744F
JFK

 

[bafanguy]

Cathay747400 & Capt. Underpants,


This whole system you describe is a bit mysterious to me. I guess it's so far from what we have here that I find it confusing. First, why do established, well-respected airlines like Cathay, Singapore, JAL, Lufthansa, etc. NEED a cadet program ? In the aviation world, pilot careers with these companies must be highly valued. Aren't experienced people lining up at the door ? Don't you have the traditional sources of pilot applicants ?

Second, what value is 2000-3000 hours of warming up a jumpseat ? The SO's may have a lot of "watching" time but, as you indicated, very little stick time. You'd think you'd want these cadets to gain hands-on experience as quickly as possible so they could be actual productive assets. It seems "watching" time would quickly have a limited value.

I'm not being critical, just curious. I know there's more than one way to skin the cat. If anything, I support giving opportunities to lower time pilots provided they have solid training/apptitude. But it seems they need to actually grab the thing by the handlebars sooner rather than watch.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

First, why do established, well-respected airlines like Cathay, Singapore, JAL, Lufthansa, etc. NEED a cadet program ?

One word: Politics. No Air Force or GA in HKG, so no "traditional" sources of applicants from HKG. CX is still primarily a UK owned company, and if they want to do business in HKG, they play the game.

Aren't experienced people lining up at the door ?

Yes. Over 5000 current applications on file at any one time.

Don't you have the traditional sources of pilot applicants ?

No. See above.

Second, what value is 2000-3000 hours of warming up a jumpseat ?

Multi crew requirements are met at minimal cost while the S/O experiences all aspects of the operation from an observers seat.

You'd think you'd want these cadets to gain hands-on experience as quickly as possible so they could be actual productive assets.

I would rather not have a 200 hour greenhorn as my F/O when the chips are down, on a dark and stormy night, thanks. I could make you shudder with experiences I have had with some of my JF/O's and F/O's in the past. Frankly, I just don't get paid enough for some of the B-S I have to catch, day after day after day...

 

[bafanguy]

Capt. U,


Thanks for the insight; it could only come from an insider like you. Having led a very sheltered life at a US major, I realize there is a lot about the workings of the profession I don't know. That's why getting to talk with you folks here is so interesting.

Allow me to revisit one issue: you mention some experiences with low-time FO's ( "...200 hour greenhorns..." ). So, under Cathay's system, the FO who is 200 hours stick time + 3000 hours jumpseat time is a better product than a guy who jumped right into full time rt seat occupancy after his initial 200 hours and maybe now has 2000 hours actual, functioning FO time when you encounter him ? I'm having trouble processing the concept of jumpseat time as a valuable credential beyond 100 hours or so. As we all know, flying is very much a hands-on activity.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Flying 10+ hour legs on an Airbus is not exactly "hands-on". It's more like "hands-off". I would much rather have an FO with three years SO time on the aircraft, than a three month FO straight out of a fighter jet, thanks...

 

[BigMotorToter]

At JAL (JALways), all my uniform pieces were paid for. Including 9 shirts and 9 ties. We were also paid about $2500/month perdiem on top of our salary during training. Free flight bag and suitcase,free headset,flashlite etc... If I want a new bag or headset, I just go to Narita ops and they give me a new one. I am not trying to compare co.'s, I just wanted to note a few things that the author of this topic said "nobody else does".

On the subject of F/O's at these foreign airlines and their experience, at JALways there are no F/O's hired that I know of that have less than 5000 hours. Now JAL mainline is different. The newhires start what is a 5 year program, from which they go from 0 time to right seat of a heavy. They go to a school in the Napa valley to get there tickets and basic flight time, then spend an eternity in ground school and sims. Usually half wash out. The Japanese instructors really hammer these guys for years.

 

[USNFDX]

Flying 10+ hour legs on an Airbus is not exactly "hands-on". It's more like "hands-off". I would much rather have an FO with three years SO time on the aircraft, than a three month FO straight out of a fighter jet, thanks...

Maybe, I miss understand you.............But are you not contradicting yourself. It seems to me the fighter guy has actualy "flown" an aircraft, while the f/o, s/o or even the Capt has done nothing more than clicked off the autopilot to land the plane.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Maybe, I miss understand you.............But are you not contradicting yourself. It seems to me the fighter guy has actualy "flown" an aircraft, while the f/o, s/o or even the Capt has done nothing more than clicked off the autopilot to land the plane.

No, I just believe that Cathay knows that there is little "stick time" invovled in their flying. I am sure they don't hire those who lack those skills, however, flying ultra long-haul is 98% autopilot. It stands to reason that they should hire relief pilots and train them over a period of years, than a pilot with 2000 hours in an RJ or fewer in a tactical jets and try to mold them in a matter of a few months...

 

[rwelch]

If selected to join as an SO is there any chance of getting one of the U.S. pax bases?
Also, what is starting salary for an SO?
How about commuting?
Thanks
rwelch

 

[center]

1. If selected to join as an SO is there any chance of getting one of the U.S. pax bases?
2. Also, what is starting salary for an SO?
3. How about commuting?
Thanks
rwelch06-29-2004 23:14



To answer your questions in order.

1. No
2. Depends on current COS and "current payscale" but about 55-60 US
3. No (you can try it at your own risk) but no commuter language in our COS
whatsoever.... remember, no "jumpseating" here at CX. You must purchase passes.

 

[rwelch]

OK, so based in HK as an SO.
Can my wife get a job in HK?
She is a Graphic Designer here in the states.
Thanks for the quick reply
rwelch

 

[balls deep340]

Yes,


Sitting in the jumpseat as a SO is at least observing, that is some experience at least no way do I want some guy with little time in the FO seat. Fresh out of UPT or Cadet program.

 

[center]

rwelch,

No, your wife is not able to work on your visa. If she wants to work in HK, she will have to apply to a HK company, be hired, and then have the sponsoring comapany request a work visa.

 

[rwelch]

Thanks for the quick reply center.
Are you on the 744 at Cathay?

rwelch