Cathay Cargo Questions - Atlanta Base

[Little Bubba]

Bjammin,

Do you think you are goin to upgrade quicker with COS 08 than COS 99. (what bjammin failed to mention is that retirement went up from age 55 to age 65)

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Not saying CX is doing the wrong thing, just wondering where the problem lies..?

I work in Japan, not in CX. But for what I have seen here, they don't believe that there is a problem, little alone the cause of it

 

[rhinodriver]

Absolutely there are things wrong with it!!!!

No you will not even out if you join on the new scales. The new unified first officer scale tops out at year ten (as does the freighter) but the passenger scale continues to year 14. That relieves the company of having to pay 4 of the highest earning years on the scale. By the way... with 65 here now upgrade will not happen until likely year 11-13. Unless you want to take an early freighter command....

By my math (which is always a challenge) if I switch over to the new scale I'll be down about $61K over ten years. That means anybody who is hired on CoS 08 is going to be hired on less conditions than we already enjoy as the company enjoys record profits.

A load of crap is what it is!!!!

 

[rhinodriver]

Now that I've vented....

Let me just say that I like the job and this is still a good place to be. Every company has its issues....

 

[highflyer7]

what is the new starting pay starting in January?

 

[Bjammin]

The new starting pay is $73,440 a year, plus $13 an hour for flight hours between 70 an 84. 82 hours is the norm for me. Also add the per diem and the 15.5% base pay retirement you can get in CASH.

This means more money in your pocket earlier rather then later.

If you figure both the old and new scales out over a 10 year period they equal.

If someone was stupid and changed over to the new scale just before going over to the PAX fleet then they would be out huge amounts of money.




Rhino,
About half way down the Unified pay scale paragraph in the notice it states that current FO's will not be asked to accept the new pay scale.

 

[Little Bubba]

Bjammin,

Do you think you are goin to upgrade quicker with COS 08 than COS 99. (what bjammin failed to mention is that retirement went up from age 55 to age 65)

 

[FreightGod]

I work in Japan, not in CX. But for what I have seen here, they don't believe that there is a problem, little alone the cause of it

Is there a similar 40% failure rate on upgrades over there as well?

 

[rhinodriver]

still pessimistic...

Rhino,
About half way down the Unified pay scale paragraph in the notice it states that current FO's will not be asked to accept the new pay scale.

Oh I read it... But what it failed to say anything about was if they will require all first officers to take the unified scale once the bases go onshore. If you remember, the proposed contract that the union didn't put to the members included that provision. So now the company imposes what they want on us but fail to mention if the scenario I raise will happen even though it was clearly a part of the first CoS 08.

Not sure when you will make the jump to the passenger fleet Bjammin, but for guys like me that are still 2 years away this could have serious consequenses.

The part in the contract that talks about how the unified first officer pay will be in line with freighter to passenger pay may be true for some regions of the world but certainly not USAB. Either way the guys that join now will make less than you in the long run. That seems wrong.

Good luck on your RT/PC!

 

[Bjammin]

Bjammin,

Do you think you are goin to upgrade quicker with COS 08 than COS 99. (what bjammin failed to mention is that retirement went up from age 55 to age 65)

It had to be increased at some point. Better now with the airline expanding then just about any other time.

Lots of guys are flying now past 55 and many more will not want to fly past age 60.



Rhino,

Can you explain how a guy joining now will make less money? I've done the math and it all looks OK.

I truly don't think any of us going from freighter to PAX have anything to worry about, our scales are set. I for one might seriously consider going to another carrier if they screw me that bad.

 

[Airbusdrvr]

Bjammin, you have not been here long enough to figure out that a 3% rise in pay, over 10 years, is really a pay cut in true buying power? If you get 2$ gasoline and your house prices have not risen 25-40% in the last 10 years you must be living outside the USA. or for that matter anywhere in the world, and the extra 15% p fund money is taxable! if you take it as cash!

Please speak the truth, this deal is not an improvement in the overall picture. Surely you can see through the company spin and realize it is just another erroision of the COS.

I don't want to personally attack you, but your previous post made it sound like you would be the first to sign. This is the deal we are getting, but we do not have to be happy about it, besides in the USA base you might as well say no! Pay rates there have been frozen since 1999.
what was the cost of a house, groceries and gas in 1999 ?? a lot than the cost today!

 

[rhinodriver]

Caution... we're getting screwed!!

Rhino,

Can you explain how a guy joining now will make less money? I've done the math and it all looks OK.

I truly don't think any of us going from freighter to PAX have anything to worry about, our scales are set. I for one might seriously consider going to another carrier if they screw me that bad.

To do the math I had to make some assumtions... To answer your question this is for a new hire on our contract versus the CoS 08. I used the pay scale for the freighter for the first three years and added the 3% raise for those years. Then went to the USAB B scale till year 10. Duty pay is a bit hard to factor in but since the company said we are getting a 2.5% raise I used an 84 hour month so it would look as the company wants us to see it. In reality I am only getting about 75 hours or so a month so I would not see the full 2.5% raise the company says I'm going to get. Then I took that number and added the 15.5% that most of us take in cash for retirement. Anyway...

After 10 years on our contract you will have made - $1,255,329

A new hire on CoS 08 will make over the same 10 years -
$1,117,204 down $58,125

If you factor in the CoS 08 pay scale tops out at year 10 and the USAB B scale tops out at year 14 for an FO and we are all about to wait an extra 3 or so years because of retirement age increase that brings our time to command up to about 13 years or so on the passenger fleet..,. the situation only gets worse. Now there is a gap of approx $108,020 over 14 years. Not chump change anyway!

The question for us is going to be if they make us take the CoS 08 when our base goes on-shore. If that is the case and you are not already on USAB B scale (like I will not be) you could be seriously f---ed.

 

[On Your Six]

At least we know you guys are trained pretty well. Check out this photo:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0041994&size=L&sok= beqre ol ivrjf QRFP&photo_nr=157&tbl=

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Is this thing set in stone? or is it waiting for the membership to take a vote?

Why do some of you say that the company is forcing it upon the pilots? Can the union vote it down? Or is the CX union only paper tiger because of HK politics? or perhaps forces within the union wanted this to happen (senior member wants 65??)

Just wanted some insight to the operations of cx union vs US unions (which is not much to speak of).

 

[rhinodriver]

Although I am a member, the union (which it really is not) is basically powerless from what I have seen. There was a negotiated contract proposal between the union and company. The general commitee decided not to support the proposed contract and it was not sent to the members for a vote. Now about a month later the company has decided to unilaterally implement most aspects of it. This has just happened and most of us don't know the real details of what the company is giving us yet. It is good if you are a 54 year old London based captain but is a s-it sandwitch for most of the rest of us. I have real concerns that my career pay will be significantly erroded from the contract that I joined on even though the company says they are giving us a raise. Basically they have created yet another pay scale to further devide the pilot group.

So to answer your question the union has very little power.

I guess this thread got pretty far off track but this is the new news of the day at Cathay. Remember that there are some really good points about being employed here as well. I just have to remember a little bit harder what those are now!

 

[ERJdca]

rhinodriver,

I couldn't agree more. As far as i understand it you will still be employed under your original conditions of service (COS99) so nothing is going to impact you outside of not receiving a cost of living increase (the minimum most of us wanted to see). Of course you can move over to COS08 if you prefer (why would anyone?).

The membership (AOA or "union") is essentially powerless; limited both legally and by its lack of membership. The company once again said that they are only dealing with the half the pilot group. (thats right, only about 1100 members!) Strength is in numbers and until the AOA gets at least 95% + membership they will have absolutely no power. Shame. To many refuse to join for silly reasons (in my opinion), i think most guys here are just too cheap! The best is when one guy told me he can go "negotiate his own contract."

I am happy here but extremely dissapointed in this companies forced proposal.

 

[johnsonrod]

General question for you 400 drivers. Now that you fly that big airplane, what do you think about it? Is it just like any other airplane after awhile or are you still impressed with it? What is it like to taxi that thing from such a high perch and look down on the rest of us?

Aaaah, we can always dream can't we?

 

[Airbusdrvr]

Johnsonrod,
the 744 Is only big when you are doing the walk around / external inspection. something a relief FO does a lot of! Ohh yeah a relief FO or SO does not taxi either so I couldn't tell you what that is like either. the 15 times a year I do taxi I seem to forget what it is like as I am too tired to remember.
as for flying it, just hang out with 4 guys in a small dark room for 15 hours looking at a poster of a 747 flightdeck and you will know what it is like. We fly the 744 for the money and the lifestyle. you fly all the other stuff for the flying!

 

[fareview]

General question for you 400 drivers. Now that you fly that big airplane, what do you think about it? Is it just like any other airplane after awhile or are you still impressed with it? What is it like to taxi that thing from such a high perch and look down on the rest of us?

Aaaah, we can always dream can't we?

Another glass cockpit airplane - yep. But there is just something about walking up the stairs to the upper deck as you go to work that gave me butterflies every time I did it.

It will always be my number one.

fv

 

[Bjammin]

I don't want to personally attack you, but your previous post made it sound like you would be the first to sign. This is the deal we are getting, but we do not have to be happy about it, besides in the USA base you might as well say no! Pay rates there have been frozen since 1999.
what was the cost of a house, groceries and gas in 1999 ?? a lot than the cost today!

What has been the overall wage increase for US major carrier pilots since '99?

Cathay is a business and I have no problem with them not giving me a HUGE pay increase while I make more money then just about any other major pilot I know. Sure FedEx and UPS guys might make more, but someone will always make more.

I'm very happy with what I get and the time I have off. It's a very fair wage and probably in the top 1% of all aviation jobs out there.

I tend to be a positive person and I think that makes me more fun to fly with and more satisfied with things not in my control.

I made more money my first year then I did after 18 years of military service. I work alot less, have much less stress, don't have other administrative duties like I did in the squadron, and my life is much more predictable. Strange thing is alot less people bitched about life in the military.

We all have chosen to be here and no one is forcing us to stay. If guys are truly unhappy with this new arangement then maybe they will leave making it even harder for the company to full cockpits. Then maybe we will see a true escalation in pay. I'll be happy with that, but i'm definitely not complaining now, not while my brothers in Delta are making less then half of me.

 

[Bjammin]

Johnsonrod,
the 744 Is only big when you are doing the walk around / external inspection. something a relief FO does a lot of! Ohh yeah a relief FO or SO does not taxi either so I couldn't tell you what that is like either. the 15 times a year I do taxi I seem to forget what it is like as I am too tired to remember.
as for flying it, just hang out with 4 guys in a small dark room for 15 hours looking at a poster of a 747 flightdeck and you will know what it is like. We fly the 744 for the money and the lifestyle. you fly all the other stuff for the flying!

As a relief FO I get about 3 to 4 sectors a month. I enjoy the flying very much and the airplane is a challenge to fly well when heavy during an approach to an airport with bad weather. Being high during the taxi gives you a good view of the tarmac, but you don't feel like your in a big airplane. The landing is very mechanical. The skill comes in saving a bad flare. Cathay is good in the respect that when it's your sector it truly is yours. The only thing the captain does that your can't is add the thrust for takeoff, he will do the preflight and you taxi when it's your sector. I enjoy flying this airplane as much as flying a fighter. It's different, but still flying.

After 3 years of being here I have learned to manage my rest and am only very tired on occasion. I tend to let guys sleep past their allowed rest if i'm alert, no problem, and it seems appriciated.

I truly enjoy the guys I fly with as well. Being in a cockpit for 15 hours with a good crew can be very enjoyable, and remember your only in the seat for at most 8 hours. It was great weather on my last sector and I got to see the coast of Russia, North and South Korea, Japan and Taiwan. I saw an erupting volcano the last trip and watch the northing lights during the winter. I've seen Japan testing missiles and the huge fishing fleets of Vietnam. Flying around the mountains into ANC is awesome when the WX is good.

The airplane is comfortable and the food pretty good. It makes the long sectors very barrable.

 

[Beefy Botham]

Bjammin, I've always found your posts to be informative and objective. Thanks for all your good info. I've been sucessful in my second interview in HK and am patiently awaiting a class date.
Beefy

 

[Little Bubba]

Bjammin'

I think you only have been here for 2.5 years...

Also, didn't you turn down an offer from Fedex?

 

[Bjammin]

Been here more then 2.5, and never interviewed with FedEx, maybe your thinking of someone else. I don't know you, I don't think.

 

[Little Bubba]

All I can say is that we have crossed paths a few times. You are a great guy, just a little bit naive when it comes to what's goin on at CX.

 

[Bjammin]

Maybe so, but I do know what's going on in MY life and those of my compadre's and I have the much better deal.

I can't get all rapped up in stuff we obviously have zero say so in. The union never got a vote! All I can do is compare life now to what it was in the military and what it will be in future with this company, it's just that basic.

The company is making money, the pilots are getting paid and not laid off, and I truly don't think there is a conspirency against us from the higher ups. They want to the company to do well and that will always be in our best interest.

Those who don't like it here should move on. That is the biggest FU you can do.


Cheers

 

[(o) (o)]

ahhhhhhhhhh....what's the point?

 

[(o) (o)]

As a relief FO I get about 3 to 4 sectors a month. I enjoy the flying very much and the airplane is a challenge to fly well when heavy during an approach to an airport with bad weather. Being high during the taxi gives you a good view of the tarmac, but you don't feel like your in a big airplane. The landing is very mechanical. The skill comes in saving a bad flare. Cathay is good in the respect that when it's your sector it truly is yours. The only thing the captain does that your can't is add the thrust for takeoff, he will do the preflight and you taxi when it's your sector. I enjoy flying this airplane as much as flying a fighter. It's different, but still flying.

After 3 years of being here I have learned to manage my rest and am only very tired on occasion. I tend to let guys sleep past their allowed rest if i'm alert, no problem, and it seems appriciated.

I truly enjoy the guys I fly with as well. Being in a cockpit for 15 hours with a good crew can be very enjoyable, and remember your only in the seat for at most 8 hours. It was great weather on my last sector and I got to see the coast of Russia, North and South Korea, Japan and Taiwan. I saw an erupting volcano the last trip and watch the northing lights during the winter. I've seen Japan testing missiles and the huge fishing fleets of Vietnam. Flying around the mountains into ANC is awesome when the WX is good.

The airplane is comfortable and the food pretty good. It makes the long sectors very barrable.

Your spelling really sucks dude.

 

[WabiSabi]

Your spelling really sucks dude.

Ahem! That would be; "Your spelling really sucks, dude." Or. "Dude, your spelling really sucks."

Get familiar with the comma before you start correcting people, dude!

Unless you meant.....nah! You couldn't have meant that anyone was sucking dudes!:laugh:

 

[Jolly Roger]

Ahem! That would be; "Your spelling really sucks, dude." Or. "Dude, your spelling really sucks."

Get familiar with the comma before you start correcting people, dude!

Unless you meant.....nah! You couldn't have meant that anyone was sucking dudes!:laugh:

Now that is funny!