CASS and MLOA

[Tim47SIP]

Any of you guys on MLOA still allowed in CASS. I am showing up as a current employee but unauthorized to Jump. I was wondering if it is a TSA thing or your own airline.

Thanks!

Tim

 

[Scrapdog]

Any of you guys on MLOA still allowed in CASS. I am showing up as a current employee but unauthorized to Jump. I was wondering if it is a TSA thing or your own airline.

Thanks!

Tim

Nope - I'm out as well. From my understanding, after a continuous 30 days of leave or more from your airline (military, sick, uscheduled, etc...) TSA takes you out of CASS. You can still jumpseat on other carriers, but you won't have cockpit access.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Have you jumpseated in the back?? The reason I ask is AA stated I wasn't authorized. All they said was that it was strange that I was still on the employee list but not authorized. That will certainly help if we can still JS in the back.

Thanks

Tim

 

[Scrapdog]

Have you jumpseated in the back?? The reason I ask is AA stated I wasn't authorized. All they said was that it was strange that I was still on the employee list but not authorized. That will certainly help if we can still JS in the back.

Thanks

Tim

You bet Tim...I've j/s'd so far on both DAL and NWA with no problems. Here's the skinny: I walk up to the counter and when I hand the gate agent my passport and my CAL ID, I tell her right off the bat that I'm currently on MLOA and I won't currently be in the CASS system. They'll huff and puff a little but just calmly explain that you can still by letter of the law jumpseat, you just can't jumpseat on the flightdeck. That is 100 percent legal, don't let them tell you different.

The one big problem is you don't have that ace in the hole if the cabin is full. So unless the plane is relatively empty, you're taking a semi-crapshoot. BTW, cookies are definetly not required to make it happen!!! LOL Just some business casual and common sense will be success enough! Good luck.

 

[pkober]

Another gotcha. I was on MLOA recently, over 30 days, and tried to JS on Express. Regional carriers in your airlines colors are considered different airlines. JS denied. It was an RJ so it's always full anyway. Just one more reason to get all our flying back to mainline.

I don't know how it would work if your airline owns the regional.

 

[Full of LUV]

I think it's an airline thing...

I returned from furlough to MLOA and have J/S'd a few times off line with no issues, I pop in CASS have been assigned the J/S once by AA (not my company). Agent said I could sit j/s as long as all seats in the back were taken, which they were.

BTW, once after running late with mil duties and still in mil uniform, I was successful in showing company ID to TSA with military uniform without a boarding pass and made it through security in the nick of time to offline js.

Sounds like alot of inconsistency out there concerning TSA, but that is not suprising. Remember you can waltz right through security after hours in phx since they don't staff it, well they probably do now.

Mileage may vary.....

 

[stonewall]

Lots of inconsistency. I'm on MLA right now....I'm FDX and supposedly out of CASS due to the MLA. I tried to jump on US Airways out of TLH (feeder, not sure which one it was). They couldn't get the CASS working at the gate, but 3-4 FA's were waiting to J/S (pleasure trip, not working) and they wanted to get me on so they had more seats on the next flight. One of the FA's walked to the flight deck and asked the Capt if I could ride in the cockpit. He said "sure." I rode in the cockpit without processing through CASS. In CLT, I was given a boarding pass to ride in the cabin just by showing my company ID.

I think Scrapdog has the best answer. If you have seats in the back, just try to explain to the gate agent that you're not in CASS due to MLA but that you can still ride in the back. Hopefully the Captain will back you up if you get the chance to rap with him.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

supposedly out of CASS due to the MLA. ...........I tried to jump .................They couldn't get the CASS working at the gate,................... He said "sure." .................I rode in the cockpit without processing through CASS.

Are you trying to screw it up or all of us.... do you have no concern for the collective? Or what is it? cause I don't get it.. help me understand...

Please call your jumpseat coordinator and have him/her explain how this works...

The TSA does not care if we have jumpseat access. Do not give them a reason to revoke it for all of us!

 

[Scrapdog]

Are you trying to screw it up or all of us.... do you have no concern for the collective? Or what is it? cause I don't get it.. help me understand...

Please call your jumpseat coordinator and have him/her explain how this works...

The TSA does not care if we have jumpseat access. Do not give them a reason to revoke it for all of us!

Alright you friggin clown, I've had it with you. This was a friendly discussion amongst MIL bro's and being on MIL LEAVE and you barge in and tell us we're "screwing it up" and "we have no concern." Get lost. How in the F are we screwing it up by being on military leave while SERVING OUR COUNTRY and trying to use the jumpseat in a very legal and legitimate way so we can see our families??? You're the screw up. You act like you wrote the book on the jumpseat. No one is impressed with your act. All of us military officers are doing things legitimately, trust me. No one is going to revoke your j/s priveledges for god's sakes. The last thing people like myself, Magnum, Deuce130, Bearcat, etc...would do is harm your freedoms you idiot - on the contrary we're fighting for them. Get over yourself. I know better yet - calm down and go grab a cookie.

 

[stonewall]

Are you trying to screw it up or all of us.... do you have no concern for the collective? Or what is it? cause I don't get it.. help me understand...

Please call your jumpseat coordinator and have him/her explain how this works...

The TSA does not care if we have jumpseat access. Do not give them a reason to revoke it for all of us!

Ease up, Rez. An F/A asks the Captain if I can ride in the cockpit, he says yes, I get on the airplane. The option was to say "no thanks, Captain," and not go home. Don't you advocate Captains' authority?

 

[Scrapdog]

Ease up, Rez. An F/A asks the Captain if I can ride in the cockpit, he says yes, I get on the airplane. The option was to say "no thanks, Captain," and not go home. Don't you advocate Captains' authority?

Maybe I was a little harsh huh? The MND's are getting to me!!!! :angryfire

 

[bearcat]

Maybe I was a little harsh huh? The MND's are getting to me!!!! :angryfire

Funny...we had 16 jets on the ramp last week for a 1 turn 1.....WHOA!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Maybe I am wrong... correct me... I understand that you occupied the flightdeck without CASS verification?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Wow! Sounds like someone needs a nap!

Alright you friggin clown, I've had it with you.

are you gonna kill me with the F-22? Or maybe just beat me up with the little F-16?

This was a friendly discussion amongst MIL bro's and being on MIL LEAVE and you barge in and tell us we're "screwing it up" and "we have no concern."

What does MIL have to do this? cause this is the MIL forum? Does one have to be in the 'club' to be in this forum?

Well...are you screwing it up?


It took you 14m to reply to my first post and no reply yet on my second.

Get lost. How in the F are we screwing it up by being on military leave while SERVING OUR COUNTRY and trying to use the jumpseat in a very legal and legitimate way so we can see our families???

What does MIL have to do this? I think we all use the j/s to see our familes. Is your family more special than anyone elses that you can take the j/s for granted? Because you are serving our country you get to break the CASS rules? That is not service that is entitlement. I am wrong aren't I?

You're the screw up. You act like you wrote the book on the jumpseat. No one is impressed with your act. All of us military officers are doing things legitimately, trust me.

military officers? Who said anything about MIL officers? Do you jumpseat as MIL officer or a Line Pilot?

Trust but verify... did the guy sit in the jumpseat w/o CASS verification?

No one is going to revoke your j/s priveledges for god's sakes. The last thing people like myself, Magnum, Deuce130, Bearcat, etc...would do is harm your freedoms you idiot - on the contrary we're fighting for them.

What do you know about jumpseat agreements, policy and protocol? You are a jumpseat user not a j/s committee member....

What does DOD service have to do with this? Should alleged violations of CASS be excused becuase one is a US Armed Forces Officer? Do the rules not apply to certain people? Is there a level of entitlement?

Well since you keep bringing MIL up... another guy got on this board months ago and talked about drinking beer while j/sing... another big N-O. He had the entitlement attitude to go with the poor decision making...He was a MIL guy... coincindence? You tell me.

Get over yourself. I know better yet - calm down and go grab a cookie.

I gave all my cookies away to FA's when I request the jumpseat... I try and give to the program not just take...

The fact is you guys can keep going on with your beer drinking and non CASS flight deck jumpseating.... and you proabably won't get noticed....

But is it worth it?

 

[RedDogC130]

Rez.. I have to agree with you on this one. I am a Mil guy so srapdog I can talk. Mag is screwing the system and if he/she were to get caught and then they find out Mil leave is involved they will say ok if you are on mil leave no jumpseat of any kind. It is not the issue of riding in the back while on mil leave it is the fact that he/she rode in the cp when they knew they were not allowed. Hell, the TSA could go after them for some homeland security issue or something. The captain is wrong for letting it happen but Mag should have known better than break the rule. That is one rule I don't want to be caught breaking

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

RedDog-

It is bad enough the MIL guys get dumped out of the CASS system while on MIL leave. The FARs say 'active pilot on a seniority list'. Well the MIL guys are still employed by thier carrier so why make it difficult...??

I occasionally chuckle when guys ask me for my medical when I jumpseat. A medical is not required.. ok...it can be used as another document to verify... however, by now if my FAA certificate, passport and company ID aren't enough.. ... (and a DOD ID for the MIL guys...).. the point on the medicals? Guys who go out on medical and become sim instructors can still jumpseat.... as long as they are on the acitve seniority list. Same with management pilots who take a desk job...


Anyway.... my original point... it is bad enough the MIL guys have problems j/sing... maybe you guys shouldn't make it worse by non-CASS-ing the flightdeck.. hopefully the blowback will be no more MIL guys can jumpseat on MIL leave instead of it effecting all of us...

 

[Scrapdog]

Wow! Sounds like someone needs a nap!




are you gonna kill me with the F-22? Or maybe just beat me up with the little F-16?





What does MIL have to do this? cause this is the MIL forum? Does one have to be in the 'club' to be in this forum?

Well...are you screwing it up?


It took you 14m to reply to my first post and no reply yet on my second.





What does MIL have to do this? I think we all use the j/s to see our familes. Is your family more special than anyone elses that you can take the j/s for granted? Because you are serving our country you get to break the CASS rules? That is not service that is entitlement. I am wrong aren't I?




military officers? Who said anything about MIL officers? Do you jumpseat as MIL officer or a Line Pilot?

Trust but verify... did the guy sit in the jumpseat w/o CASS verification?




What do you know about jumpseat agreements, policy and protocol? You are a jumpseat user not a j/s committee member....

What does DOD service have to do with this? Should alleged violations of CASS be excused becuase one is a US Armed Forces Officer? Do the rules not apply to certain people? Is there a level of entitlement?

Well since you keep bringing MIL up... another guy got on this board months ago and talked about drinking beer while j/sing... another big N-O. He had the entitlement attitude to go with the poor decision making...He was a MIL guy... coincindence? You tell me.




I gave all my cookies away to FA's when I request the jumpseat... I try and give to the program not just take...

The fact is you guys can keep going on with your beer drinking and non CASS flight deck jumpseating.... and you proabably won't get noticed....

But is it worth it?

Rez, I'd never kill you or beat you up with any jet. On the contrary, I've signed the dotted line to defend our country and its citizens (i.e. you) whenever duty calls.

MIL has everything to do with it. One, it was posted by a MILITARY pilot that also flies with the airlines in the MILITARY forum. Two, it involved him asking other MILITARY folks who did the same thing (i.e. folks like me, Magnum, Bearcat) on his deal with j/s'ing on MILITARY LEAVE.

Nope, I'm not screwing it up. Or am I? If you'd like to file a complaint on me...please by all means call CAL. If you'd like to PM me, I'll give you my full name and employee number so you can voice to them exactly your feelings.

I j/s as a line pilot that also serves as a MILITARY OFFICER. As a MILITARY OFFICER, I am discriminated against j/s'ing after 30 days on MILITARY LEAVE. That is my thoughts. I'm still employed by my airline on the active seniority list - but I just happen to be serving my country currently in the UNITED STATES MILITARY, i.e. protected by the USERRA laws of 1994. All of us MILITARY PILOTS were having a friendly discussion with each other on our experiences since we've been on MILITARY LEAVE.

IMO, Magnum didn't have a CASS violation. As a matter of fact if you read his post, CASS wasn't working at the time. He asked the captain flying the aircraft if he could j/s and the captain gave him permission. In no way did Magnum disrespect the rules and courtesies of j/s'ing nor did he actively go out of his way to illegitimately j/s.

As far as the other MILITARY guy drinking beer while j/s'ing...well, I think it is a coincidence. Neither myself or Magnum is "that guy." As a matter of fact, I've seen civilian clowns blatantly break rules as well. It has absolutely nothing to do with being in the MILITARY or not. Are you one of those guys?

Last but not least - I haven't responded to your prior post until now was frankly I had much more important things to do then wait for you to formulate yours. And overall I'm getting tired of your high and mighty talk down speeches about what someone can and can't do while j/s'ing, how to act, etc. In all honesty, it's lame.

If you'd like to complain about me or MILITARY PILOTS j/s'ing in general - I'll be glad to provide you with all the data you'd like. You will find that no where have I violated any j/s rules, nor have 99.9999% of other MILITARY guys.

 

[CHQ Pilot]

Anyway.... my original point... it is bad enough the MIL guys have problems j/sing... maybe you guys shouldn't make it worse by non-CASS-ing the flightdeck.. hopefully the blowback will be no more MIL guys can jumpseat on MIL leave instead of it effecting all of us...

Maybe I'm not getting this right..are you saying that you're hoping that guys on MIL leave won't be able to jumpseat?

When you say "all of us" I think that includes those that are airline pilots that are also in the Guard/Reserves. I was an airline guy before I became military, so I know about jumpseat abuse and helping people out. The jumpseat is a professional courtesy that is extended to all airline pilots, though the majority are P121. Only since 9/11 has the authority of who rides in the cockpit been taken away from the Captain. Although the TSA runs who can sit in the cockpit, the jumpseat is still (and should remain) a courtesy for airline pilots.

Obviously you're not familiar with most types of MIL leave. I may have volunteered for the Reserves, but I don't get to pick and chose when and where I want to go. I didn't get to chose to spend 4 months away from home in training in a location that makes it almost impossible to get home. On top of that, the only way to get home, if the schedule works out, is to jumpseat. I am still an airline pilot and on a seniority list. Although I may not be able to ride up front, at least I am extended the professional courtesy of the "jumpseat". Pilots on MIL leave are not a rogue group of "fake" airline pilots trying to catch a free ride. We're just trying to catch a ride to wherever me may need to go. CASS may have thrown a few problems into the mix, but it doesn't mean to create a segregation of those that serve and those that do not.

 

[Afterprop]

My understanding is CASS is for the cockpit . . . but I have also heard of incidents when CASS was down, and because the JS pilot could not be "verified," he was not even allowed to sit in the back :-( Also heard that when CASS is "down," you are just SOL.

Although not part of the MLOA crowd, my thanks go out to them for their on-going sacrifices . . . talking about having a few brands in the fire.

BTW, as a retired mil guy, I've seen plenty of mil and civ guys who would do well to listen to the voices from the other side of the fence.
Cheers,
'Props

 

[cruxx@9]

REZ,

Wow, these guys sacrificing thier time and income to defend our counrty should be entitled the j/s. IMHO even stay in CASS, that is not the case here. The captain that allowed the dude to sit in the cp j/s is at fault, if there is any fault to issue. I believe in Captains authority and if he says you can sit up front then he is taking the responsibility. That being said, how is a MLOA airline pilot j/s any different than that of a civvie pilot requesting a j/s for personal business. We are all in the same boat, just different reasons for using the jumpseat. I still think a pilot going to work has the priority, after that it's up to the skipper.

my 2 cents.

BTW, to the mil pilots...thank ya'll for your sacrifice

 

[BiffF15]

Any of you guys on MLOA still allowed in CASS. I am showing up as a current employee but unauthorized to Jump. I was wondering if it is a TSA thing or your own airline.

Thanks!

Tim

Tim,
It's your airline causing the "problem". When you jumpseat the gate agent / CSR inputs your data into the system. The "system" in turns contacts your company system to verify you are who you claim to be. When you go on Mil Leave the computer system at your airline doesn't show you as active, and in turn passes no data along to the CASS system. This is why you get CASS denial. I think Scrapdog said it correctly that you get denied cockpit acess however you are still eligible to ride in the back. The first thing you should do is contact your union jumpseat rep and get the skinny.
Biff

 

[PsubS]

Scrap, you're in the wrong on this one. Debrief rules apply.

Coming from another fighter bro (albeit retired from the mighty Eaglejet), I can say that this thread is like a debrief. Leave your supercharged ego at the vault door and walk on down to the room, close the door, and let the gloves come off. This thread and rebuke is NOT about your military service. Lord knows we need a new crop of fighter pilots to drink Weed and chase the bad guys.

The thread IS about your inability to follow the rules, especially when the fallout of such an action could negatively impact the rest of the airline community.

Exactly how would you explain your presence in a cockpit to the FAA or TSA if caught? Yes, the Captain invited you. He was wrong. You accepted the ride--you were equally wrong. The gate agent knew that you were not CASS qualified--they were wrong. You knew that you were not CASS qualified, yet you accepted the seat. You screwed up, son.

It won't take much for the CASS program to be rescinded or subject to far more "pain in the butt" factors if examples of impropriety leak out. Thus Rez is correct--you endangered MY program for your own benefit. How selfish is that?

Scrap, accept this verbal slap for what it is--a screw up. Fess up, learn from it, move on.

 

[pilotyip]

Cockpit without CASS

Ease up, Rez. An F/A asks the Captain if I can ride in the cockpit, he says yes, I get on the airplane. The option was to say "no thanks, Captain," and not go home. Don't you advocate Captains' authority?

I think you must be in CASS to offline JS in the cockpit. The Capt alone can not grant Cockpit JS without violating 121 and TSA regs.

 

[Scrapdog]

Scrap, you're in the wrong on this one. Debrief rules apply.

Coming from another fighter bro (albeit retired from the mighty Eaglejet), I can say that this thread is like a debrief. Leave your supercharged ego at the vault door and walk on down to the room, close the door, and let the gloves come off. This thread and rebuke is NOT about your military service. Lord knows we need a new crop of fighter pilots to drink Weed and chase the bad guys.

The thread IS about your inability to follow the rules, especially when the fallout of such an action could negatively impact the rest of the airline community.

Exactly how would you explain your presence in a cockpit to the FAA or TSA if caught? Yes, the Captain invited you. He was wrong. You accepted the ride--you were equally wrong. The gate agent knew that you were not CASS qualified--they were wrong. You knew that you were not CASS qualified, yet you accepted the seat. You screwed up, son.

It won't take much for the CASS program to be rescinded or subject to far more "pain in the butt" factors if examples of impropriety leak out. Thus Rez is correct--you endangered MY program for your own benefit. How selfish is that?

Scrap, accept this verbal slap for what it is--a screw up. Fess up, learn from it, move on.

PsubS - fair enough. For the record, I didn't "screw up" j/s'ing...I was defending Magnum who had the incident - but it doesn't matter - your words are noted and accepted.

Am I a little overly fired up on this? Yes, I will admit. However, listening to Rez play high and mighty on j/s'ing and then coming over to a mil thread while we are quietly talking amongst the bro's is kind of like your 3rd shot of weed - it tastes like crap and provides you absolutely nothing worth of value.

 

[stonewall]

Guys, I think you misunderstood what happened. I gave my badge and passport to the gate agent. She asked me if I was in CASS, I said "I'm not sure." My airline IS in CASS, but I may not be active right now. I do not know if FDX has dropped me in CASS. She said "standby." She appeared to have trouble with CASS at the gate, and it's unknown whether or not it was operator or system error. I still do not know if she pulled me up in CASS or not. I do not think she did, but I can't verify that.

Three F/As were waiting on a j/s and all traveling together. There were no seats in the back, but one decided to help me out and walked to the flightdeck just before door closing and asked if the Capt if I could ride up front. He said yes. The F/A walked back up and told me to go on down. I did. From the captain's perspective, he probably assumed I was verified in CASS. It's probably not relevant, but he was an IOE Capt with an LCA in the right seat (who was also an FFDO and carrying).

Maybe I should've doublechecked whether or not they verified me in CASS. I didn't think it was this big of a deal. Perhaps I'm wrong, though.

 

[Deuce130]

No, you're not wrong. This is much ado about nothing. The whole point of CASS is to protect us against them. Nothing more, nothing less. It's kind of like racial profiling. The CA made a judgement call and that's that. If anyone sincerely thinks we'll all lose J/S privileges b/c Magnum got by with one then they're not seeing the bigger picture.

 

[PsubS]

Scrap--sorry. I didn't read the previous posts closely enough and confused you with Magnum.

Magnum, you posted this previously:

I rode in the cockpit without processing through CASS.

Sounds like you knew what was going on, but hey... I could be wrong. By the way, the fact that there was a check airman/FFDO in the right seat is indeed irrelevant.

If anyone, Deuce included, believes that this program is bulletproof and can't go away at the drop of a bureaucratic hat, you're wrong. Perhaps this misstep won't be the tripwire, but similar circumstances could easily lead to big problems with the cockpit jumpseat. Its probably a good idea to be a little cautious, guys.

 

[pkober]

The funny thing is that Rez is Mr. ALPA. He shouldn't want to screw a ALPA "brother". He is completely not about true union brotherhood. He probably picks up trips while fellow ALPA bro's are furloughed. He just wants to lecture you with all his wisdom.

 

[stonewall]

Sounds like you knew what was going on, but hey... I could be wrong. By the way, the fact that there was a check airman/FFDO in the right seat is indeed irrelevant.

I think that's what I just said.

 

[RedDogC130]

I am playing devil's advocate here. So what is the point of CASS then? Just let anyone with ID on the flightdeck. What if they have an ID but forgot their license? Where do you draw the line? In my opinion/feeling is that Magnum knew that it was the last flight out possibly and he would have been stuck if he did not get on. I have a hard time believing that this was the first jumpseat he did while on that stint of mil leave and did not know whether he was in CASS or not. Just a thought.