Cash Position of Airlines (USA Today Article)

[Noserider76]

As far as the NWA guys are concerned, it's like being tossed into the water to save someone (ie DAL), only to have them drag you down, too.

Yippie...

Nu

Riiight.......you can't get past it can you. I hope the toolness you and few others demonstrate here is not endemic. Take a look at where most of the bs posts originate and most of the time you'll find a NW guy.

Here's some back at you. You guys are in no position to save anything. We'll all be paying for your long overdue fleet update and bringing the onboard product into the 21st century for years to come.

 

[General Lee]

As far as the NWA guys are concerned, it's like being tossed into the water to save someone (ie DAL), only to have them drag you down, too.

Yippie...

Nu

Oh give me a break...... Delta is using a credit line to make sure things run smoothly. After that, we will price the market Internationally, and make it all back. Here is some of what Phil Baggaley (S&P analyst) stated today about Delta:

"Baggaley said, Delta's financial performance "should continue to be better than those of most peer large U.S. airlines." He also said the carrier is likely to post positive operating cash flow and adequate liquidity."


The combination of our carriers will make us a monster, and we will all have a blast. I can't wait for it to be fricken Fantastic.... Relax.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

Riiight.......you can't get past it can you. I hope the toolness you and few others demonstrate here is not endemic. Take a look at where most of the bs posts originate and most of the time you'll find a NW guy.

Here's some back at you. You guys are in no position to save anything. We'll all be paying for your long overdue fleet update and bringing the onboard product into the 21st century for years to come.

Yup, and we'll be paying to bring your antiquated IT systems into the 21st, along with your training programs, which are still trapped in the wayback machine set for 1968.

A recent article had DAL pushing a critical cash position that was suddenly made "all better" with NWAs cash on hand.

Besides Nosey, weren't you one of the big "NO" cheerleaders? Kind of a switch to singing Kum Bah Yah, don't ya think?

Things that make you go hmmm. Well, grab a bucket and start bailing.

Nu

 

[Fly4hire]

We'll all be paying for your long overdue fleet update and bringing the onboard product into the 21st century for years to come.

You mean we'll be getting seatback video in the DC9's?

Actually if you want to go by percentages, you have a lot more old aircraft than we do, unless of course you consider MD80's "new".

 

[Superpilot92]

So when is our first joint crawfish festival?

 

[Noserider76]

Yup, and we'll be paying to bring your antiquated IT systems into the 21st, along with your training programs, which are still trapped in the wayback machine set for 1968.

A recent article had DAL pushing a critical cash position that was suddenly made "all better" with NWAs cash on hand.

Besides Nosey, weren't you one of the big "NO" cheerleaders? Kind of a switch to singing Kum Bah Yah, don't ya think?

Things that make you go hmmm. Well, grab a bucket and start bailing.

Nu

Antiquated IT systems? Seems to me we had flat panels GIDS at the gates and most of the other tech stuff long before you or anyone else. I went through your training program which you seem so fixated on and it was a good one. Ours, if anything, seems to have gone to far into the future with everything but sims done on the computer. For me though training is not such a major part of life as it seems to be for you. I don't spend much time there, just get in, get my stuff done and leave. No problemo. You?

I still have absolutely zero enthusiam for this merger and I can say I'm in the majority here. It's more like resignation. Unless the government kills it, it's going to happen. I'm afraid at this point they would give up anything to make it happen.

Can't wait to see the flames coming off your angry carcass when the SLI debate heats up. Looks as though we're already trying to figure out what to do with the surplus guys over there before DCC while your fleet shrinks.

 

[General Lee]

You mean we'll be getting seatback video in the DC9's?

Actually if you want to go by percentages, you have a lot more old aircraft than we do, unless of course you consider MD80's "new".

Actually, we have the 2 "newest" versions of the MD80---the MD88 and MD90, and we will likely get more of the MD90s, which will be put in the MSP hub.
You may see them. Compare them to the AA MD80s, and they are spring chickens.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

A recent article had DAL pushing a critical cash position that was suddenly made "all better" with NWAs cash on hand.

Is that the same article that stated that NWA had the highest costs of the large airlines, despite it's bankruptcy reorganization, and that NWA's debt is a staggering $9.9B with only $13.2B in revenue. All that debt, you'd expect a young modern fleet.

 

[FDJ2]

Actually if you want to go by percentages, you have a lot more old aircraft than we do, unless of course you consider MD80's "new".

Just the Facts:

Average age of NWA fleet 18.5
Average age of DAL fleet 13.8
http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fleetage.htm

 

[DTW320]

Just the Facts:

Average age of NWA fleet 18.5
Average age of DAL fleet 13.8
http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fleetage.htm

Just the Facts:

DAL includes their RJ's in the average age calculation (see last years 10-K), NWA does not.
When you take the RJ's out, the DAL average age increases by a year and a half. FWIW, if you take out the DC-9's (they're going away according to you guys) the NWA age goes down to 11.5 years.

All that debt, you'd expect a young modern fleet.

Take out the decreasing DC-9's and it looks like we have it

 

[nonstop]

Just the Facts:

Average age of NWA fleet 18.5
Average age of DAL fleet 13.8
http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fleetage.htm

That link is not accurate it's counting 111 DC-9s. I believe there's quite a few less than 100 flying now and only 6x at the end of the year so that fleet age has to be way off.

Who cares anyway?

 

[Superpilot92]

deja vu.....YAWN....Bueller....Bueller

Looks like we have come full circle and run out of things to argue over

 

[FDJ2]

Just the Facts:

DAL includes their RJ's in the average age calculation (see last years 10-K),

The source wasn't the DAL 10-k

NWA does not.
When you take the RJ's out, the DAL average age increases by a year and a half. FWIW, if you take out the DC-9's (they're going away according to you guys) the NWA age goes down to 11.5 years.

Source?

Take out the decreasing DC-9's and it looks like we have it

Airfleets didn't include RJs.


DAL 14.1

http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/Delta%20Airlines.htm

FWIW, the DAL fleet would be much younger if we got rid of our oldest airframes too. Nevertheless, those are just the facts as they exist today.

 

[DTW320]

Source?

NWA's 2007 10-K filed 2-29-08.

Airfleets numbers are less accurate than the 10-K because they lump lots of airplanes together. Most of their #'s disagree with Delta's own numbers as published in the 2007 10-K (adjusted from 12/31/07 to today). I'll go with the 10-K numbers from DAL.

 

[FDJ2]

NWA's 2007 10-K filed 2-29-08.

Airfleets numbers are less accurate than the 10-K because they lump lots of airplanes together.

So? We talking about airline fleets, not specific aircraft. By definition we are lumping lots of airplanes.

Most of their #'s disagree with Delta's own numbers as published in the 2007 10-K (adjusted from 12/31/07 to today). I'll go with the 10-K numbers from DAL.

Perhaps because airfleet's numbers are more current than an old 10-k that is over 7 months old and an old 10K doesn't include many of the fleet changes that have occurred in the last 7 months.

Looking at the NWA fleet based on the NWA 10-k (adjusted),
we have:

94 DC-9s, average age 36

13 B747F, average age 25.6

55 B757-200s, average age 17.2

That represents nearly 50% of the NWA fleet on the NWA 10K. Are those numbers accurate today, based on your 10-k from 12/31/07? Probably not.

Let's move on.

 

[Muskycat]

Perhaps because airfleet's numbers are more current than an old 10-k that is over 7 months old and an old 10K doesn't include many of the fleet changes that have occurred in the last 7 months.

Looking at the NWA fleet based on the NWA 10-k (adjusted),
we have:

94 DC-9s, average age 36

13 B747F, average age 25.6



55 B757-200s, average age 17.2

That represents nearly 50% of the NWA fleet on the NWA 10K. Are those numbers accurate today, based on your 10-k from 12/31/07? Probably not.

Let's move on.

Exactly, Just move on.... With some people on here it's just hopeless.

 

[Fly4hire]

Actually, we have the 2 "newest" versions of the MD80---the MD88 and MD90, and we will likely get more of the MD90s, which will be put in the MSP hub.
You may see them. Compare them to the AA MD80s, and they are spring chickens.


Bye Bye--General Lee

GL,

What is the breakdown of DAL's fleet between MD80's, 88's, and 90's?

I'm not arguing the improvement of the above acft over a straight DC9, however the fact remains most airlines are considering the MD series an aircraft in need of "fleet renewal" as well.

Not trying to resurrect previous DMC's here - point is we all bring different and valuable things to the table, and we will be a stronger airline than either one of would have been separately.

As to the "acquiring" the weaker NWA arguments, again show me where money is actually changing hands for the "purchase" (hint: you won't find it)