Cash Position of Airlines (USA Today Article)

[Noserider76]

I logged on after he'd posted.

[Occam's Razor states that the simplest solution is usually the correct one.]

It's cool. I was just wondering why D-9's pirate fantasy wasn't worth a "keep it in line boys" comment when you logged in earlier today and posted and FDJ2's well thought out, totally pirate-free masterpiece was.

 

[General Lee]

Jesus Christ but you are such a defensive ***********************************.

I never got into a twist, that is your gig. (perhaps testicular torsion, get it looked at since you can lose one that way)

Even though I don't wish ill will towards any competitor, I do take some enjoyment in twisting your tit by mentioning that you are hoping for the FRENCH to bail you out?

Will the south rise again for the reach around?

Bye, bye................

Do you really think you are "twisting my tit?" Really? I think not. I've never even heard of you until your previous post. You never have been on my radar screen. And, I never said I was HOPING for the French to bail us out, since they won't have to. I said they COULD if we needed it, but thanks to a merger, we likely won't need it. Seems like the only twisting you do are words from a "competitor". And we'll leave the "reach arounds" to you, since you are likely an expert in that field.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Occam's Razor]

It's cool. I was just wondering why D-9's pirate fantasy wasn't worth a "keep it in line boys" comment when you logged in earlier today and posted and FDJ2's well thought out, totally pirate-free masterpiece was.

My reply wasn't directed at anyone. The time for chirping about pre-merger stuff is past. I've had 20-years of listening to that sort of bunk.

 

[Noserider76]

My reply wasn't directed at anyone. The time for chirping about pre-merger stuff is past. I've had 20-years of listening to that sort of bunk.

You're right, of course, and I apologize for the tone of my post. I realize you are trying to keep the conversation constructive, or at least not too destructive, on both sides. There are just some posts that demand a response or they sit there and are taken as the truth by many. I'm sure there will be many more as we go through the SLI process. Hopefully we can come out the other side and still talk to one another. Thanks for your good input here over the years. Take care.

 

[QCappy]

Alaska financially stronger than SWA?

No disrespect to Alaska, but that's ludicrous. Look at the respective profits earned over the last decade.

Look at the respective size of the companies. You need to look at profit as a function of revenue. However, I agree with you. Southwest is in very good financial shape.

Remember though, hedges are a gamble. Southwest hedges 80%, Alaska only 50% of their fuel.

 

[Diesel-9]

Delta tapping $1B credit line to deal with merger

By KELLY YAMANOUCHI

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Monday, August 25, 2008

Delta Air Lines is borrowing $1 billion with an existing credit line to increase its cash balance as it nears the close of its acquisition of Northwest Airlines.

Atlanta-based Delta expects to close its deal with Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest by the end of the year.

Delta president and chief financial officer Ed Bastian said in a memo to employees that drawing down the full amount of the companys $1 billion credit line will provide us with the utmost in flexibility as it prepares to close the merger. He said he believes :-O the company has more than sufficient cash to manage the integration of the two airlines and run the business. Delta has estimated the integration will cost $600 million over three years.

Its not being done out of any financial duress or any operating needs for cash, (Sure Ed, we beleive you) Bastian said in an interview Monday. It is more of an offensive move to align our bank agreements with that of Northwest as the companies enter discussions with bankers, he said, adding that he could not elaborate further.

Delta said it had $3.7 billion in liquidity at the end of July, including the $1 billion credit line, down from $4.3 billion at the end of June.

Delta took out a $1.5 billion loan when it exited from bankruptcy last year, along with the $1 billion credit line that it has pointed to as evidence of its liquidity.

Delta also said Monday it has amended its Visa/MasterCard credit processing agreement with U.S. Bank to run through 2011 with no cash holdback required. The agreement also covers Northwest after the close of the merger.

Unrestricted cash/short term investments are approaching 10% cash to revenue.

 

[Fly4hire]

My reply wasn't directed at anyone. The time for chirping about pre-merger stuff is past. I've had 20-years of listening to that sort of bunk.

Correction - it's been 20 yrs of post-merger bunk.

And the most recent AJC article doesn't sound like bunk.

It sounds more like "we'll borrow against home equity to pay our mortgage while we wait for our house to sell since we are burning more than we make and then we can buy a bigger house with a larger mortgage, but we'll make up the difference because it will cost less to heat......"

I just hope DAL's plans are not to use NWA as another line of credit to exhaust.

Who was it who said "DAL's salvation lies in MSP"?

 

[jetflier]

EVERYTHING! NWA average F/A bra size is 38DD. Average DAL F/A is 34B, all natural.

Diesel,

"Don't you mean 38 LONG

 

[Noserider76]

This thing is going to take an enormous amount of cash to get done at probably the worst possible time to burn cash but nobody asked our opinions. If it goes down in flames, we're all going with it.

Here's the coolaid video the managers are showing at their leadership conferences. Some good old footage, but somehow they left a few other less illustrious milestones out of the thing.

http://vidego.multicastmedia.com/player.php?v=70382

 

[NuGuy]

This thing is going to take an enormous amount of cash to get done at probably the worst possible time to burn cash but nobody asked our opinions. If it goes down in flames, we're all going with it.

As far as the NWA guys are concerned, it's like being tossed into the water to save someone (ie DAL), only to have them drag you down, too.

Yippie...

Nu

 

[Noserider76]

As far as the NWA guys are concerned, it's like being tossed into the water to save someone (ie DAL), only to have them drag you down, too.

Yippie...

Nu

Riiight.......you can't get past it can you. I hope the toolness you and few others demonstrate here is not endemic. Take a look at where most of the bs posts originate and most of the time you'll find a NW guy.

Here's some back at you. You guys are in no position to save anything. We'll all be paying for your long overdue fleet update and bringing the onboard product into the 21st century for years to come.

 

[General Lee]

As far as the NWA guys are concerned, it's like being tossed into the water to save someone (ie DAL), only to have them drag you down, too.

Yippie...

Nu

Oh give me a break...... Delta is using a credit line to make sure things run smoothly. After that, we will price the market Internationally, and make it all back. Here is some of what Phil Baggaley (S&P analyst) stated today about Delta:

"Baggaley said, Delta's financial performance "should continue to be better than those of most peer large U.S. airlines." He also said the carrier is likely to post positive operating cash flow and adequate liquidity."


The combination of our carriers will make us a monster, and we will all have a blast. I can't wait for it to be fricken Fantastic.... Relax.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

Riiight.......you can't get past it can you. I hope the toolness you and few others demonstrate here is not endemic. Take a look at where most of the bs posts originate and most of the time you'll find a NW guy.

Here's some back at you. You guys are in no position to save anything. We'll all be paying for your long overdue fleet update and bringing the onboard product into the 21st century for years to come.

Yup, and we'll be paying to bring your antiquated IT systems into the 21st, along with your training programs, which are still trapped in the wayback machine set for 1968.

A recent article had DAL pushing a critical cash position that was suddenly made "all better" with NWAs cash on hand.

Besides Nosey, weren't you one of the big "NO" cheerleaders? Kind of a switch to singing Kum Bah Yah, don't ya think?

Things that make you go hmmm. Well, grab a bucket and start bailing.

Nu

 

[Fly4hire]

We'll all be paying for your long overdue fleet update and bringing the onboard product into the 21st century for years to come.

You mean we'll be getting seatback video in the DC9's?

Actually if you want to go by percentages, you have a lot more old aircraft than we do, unless of course you consider MD80's "new".

 

[Superpilot92]

So when is our first joint crawfish festival?

 

[Noserider76]

Yup, and we'll be paying to bring your antiquated IT systems into the 21st, along with your training programs, which are still trapped in the wayback machine set for 1968.

A recent article had DAL pushing a critical cash position that was suddenly made "all better" with NWAs cash on hand.

Besides Nosey, weren't you one of the big "NO" cheerleaders? Kind of a switch to singing Kum Bah Yah, don't ya think?

Things that make you go hmmm. Well, grab a bucket and start bailing.

Nu

Antiquated IT systems? Seems to me we had flat panels GIDS at the gates and most of the other tech stuff long before you or anyone else. I went through your training program which you seem so fixated on and it was a good one. Ours, if anything, seems to have gone to far into the future with everything but sims done on the computer. For me though training is not such a major part of life as it seems to be for you. I don't spend much time there, just get in, get my stuff done and leave. No problemo. You?

I still have absolutely zero enthusiam for this merger and I can say I'm in the majority here. It's more like resignation. Unless the government kills it, it's going to happen. I'm afraid at this point they would give up anything to make it happen.

Can't wait to see the flames coming off your angry carcass when the SLI debate heats up. Looks as though we're already trying to figure out what to do with the surplus guys over there before DCC while your fleet shrinks.

 

[General Lee]

You mean we'll be getting seatback video in the DC9's?

Actually if you want to go by percentages, you have a lot more old aircraft than we do, unless of course you consider MD80's "new".

Actually, we have the 2 "newest" versions of the MD80---the MD88 and MD90, and we will likely get more of the MD90s, which will be put in the MSP hub.
You may see them. Compare them to the AA MD80s, and they are spring chickens.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

A recent article had DAL pushing a critical cash position that was suddenly made "all better" with NWAs cash on hand.

Is that the same article that stated that NWA had the highest costs of the large airlines, despite it's bankruptcy reorganization, and that NWA's debt is a staggering $9.9B with only $13.2B in revenue. All that debt, you'd expect a young modern fleet.

 

[FDJ2]

Actually if you want to go by percentages, you have a lot more old aircraft than we do, unless of course you consider MD80's "new".

Just the Facts:

Average age of NWA fleet 18.5
Average age of DAL fleet 13.8
http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fleetage.htm

 

[DTW320]

Just the Facts:

Average age of NWA fleet 18.5
Average age of DAL fleet 13.8
http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fleetage.htm

Just the Facts:

DAL includes their RJ's in the average age calculation (see last years 10-K), NWA does not.
When you take the RJ's out, the DAL average age increases by a year and a half. FWIW, if you take out the DC-9's (they're going away according to you guys) the NWA age goes down to 11.5 years.

All that debt, you'd expect a young modern fleet.

Take out the decreasing DC-9's and it looks like we have it

 

[nonstop]

Just the Facts:

Average age of NWA fleet 18.5
Average age of DAL fleet 13.8
http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fleetage.htm

That link is not accurate it's counting 111 DC-9s. I believe there's quite a few less than 100 flying now and only 6x at the end of the year so that fleet age has to be way off.

Who cares anyway?

 

[Superpilot92]

deja vu.....YAWN....Bueller....Bueller

Looks like we have come full circle and run out of things to argue over

 

[FDJ2]

Just the Facts:

DAL includes their RJ's in the average age calculation (see last years 10-K),

The source wasn't the DAL 10-k

NWA does not.
When you take the RJ's out, the DAL average age increases by a year and a half. FWIW, if you take out the DC-9's (they're going away according to you guys) the NWA age goes down to 11.5 years.

Source?

Take out the decreasing DC-9's and it looks like we have it

Airfleets didn't include RJs.


DAL 14.1

http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/Delta%20Airlines.htm

FWIW, the DAL fleet would be much younger if we got rid of our oldest airframes too. Nevertheless, those are just the facts as they exist today.

 

[DTW320]

Source?

NWA's 2007 10-K filed 2-29-08.

Airfleets numbers are less accurate than the 10-K because they lump lots of airplanes together. Most of their #'s disagree with Delta's own numbers as published in the 2007 10-K (adjusted from 12/31/07 to today). I'll go with the 10-K numbers from DAL.

 

[FDJ2]

NWA's 2007 10-K filed 2-29-08.

Airfleets numbers are less accurate than the 10-K because they lump lots of airplanes together.

So? We talking about airline fleets, not specific aircraft. By definition we are lumping lots of airplanes.

Most of their #'s disagree with Delta's own numbers as published in the 2007 10-K (adjusted from 12/31/07 to today). I'll go with the 10-K numbers from DAL.

Perhaps because airfleet's numbers are more current than an old 10-k that is over 7 months old and an old 10K doesn't include many of the fleet changes that have occurred in the last 7 months.

Looking at the NWA fleet based on the NWA 10-k (adjusted),
we have:

94 DC-9s, average age 36

13 B747F, average age 25.6

55 B757-200s, average age 17.2

That represents nearly 50% of the NWA fleet on the NWA 10K. Are those numbers accurate today, based on your 10-k from 12/31/07? Probably not.

Let's move on.

 

[Muskycat]

Perhaps because airfleet's numbers are more current than an old 10-k that is over 7 months old and an old 10K doesn't include many of the fleet changes that have occurred in the last 7 months.

Looking at the NWA fleet based on the NWA 10-k (adjusted),
we have:

94 DC-9s, average age 36

13 B747F, average age 25.6



55 B757-200s, average age 17.2

That represents nearly 50% of the NWA fleet on the NWA 10K. Are those numbers accurate today, based on your 10-k from 12/31/07? Probably not.

Let's move on.

Exactly, Just move on.... With some people on here it's just hopeless.

 

[Fly4hire]

Actually, we have the 2 "newest" versions of the MD80---the MD88 and MD90, and we will likely get more of the MD90s, which will be put in the MSP hub.
You may see them. Compare them to the AA MD80s, and they are spring chickens.


Bye Bye--General Lee

GL,

What is the breakdown of DAL's fleet between MD80's, 88's, and 90's?

I'm not arguing the improvement of the above acft over a straight DC9, however the fact remains most airlines are considering the MD series an aircraft in need of "fleet renewal" as well.

Not trying to resurrect previous DMC's here - point is we all bring different and valuable things to the table, and we will be a stronger airline than either one of would have been separately.

As to the "acquiring" the weaker NWA arguments, again show me where money is actually changing hands for the "purchase" (hint: you won't find it)