Cartys backdoor deal

[enigma]

WBAP radio (820, Fort Worth-Dallas) news just reported that AA set up a special account last year to provide guaranteed retirement/benefits for Carty and other top managers. WBAP noted that this information was NOT KNOWN before the unions voted on concessions earlier this week.

When you hear of such "deals", it tends to reinforce the idea that management does not deserve loyalty from labor.

regards,
8N

 

[AAflyer]

Yes,

Infact as of this evening the TWU has said they may not sign the tentative, still waiting for a response from APA and APFA.

It is not just the fact that they set up these trusts to protect the top 45 execs pension, but they blatantly talk about destroying our pensions in BK.

They also said they wouldn't file the SEC report till the votes were in, this is where this info was found.

To add more insult to injury, after taking increadible pay cuts with minimal reward IF the airline does well we find out that the top 6 get more bonuses just for staying at AA till 2005 even if we do not make money. More of that SHARED pain we all are accepting here at AA.

It wouldn't matter if you lowered our wages even more, if there is this much distrust a company will eventually fail, I just hope the AMR BOD realizes this before we can't pull out of this nose dive.

Should be an interesting dAAy tomorrow.

AAflyer

 

[PA-44Typed]

Leo and his crew over at Delta have the same kind of retirement protection for the top level executives!

 

[Typhoon1244]

Leo and his crew over at Delta have the same kind of retirement protection for the top level executives!

Does any of this really surprise anybody?

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Celebrities, politicians, and business leaders.....it's all about ME.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Celebrities, politicians, and business leaders...

...pilots...

...it's all about ME.

 

[surfnole]

Here is the link:

AA Double Dealing Mgmt

Obviously the bonus and pension are for the great job they are doing.

 

[VMA214]

Leo and his crew over at Delta have the same kind of retirement protection for the top level executives!

Yes, but he did it completely out in the open!...unlike BOZO!!

 

[canadflyau]

Here is what an AA pilot had to say to me about it:

"Yep, imagine that, management selling the idea of "sharing the pain" while their "pain" is tempered with a few secret deals, that only became public with the SEC filing due out the DAY AFTER the vote. Let's see, who set the deadline for the vote, oh yes, management. Do you think management was lying to the employees when they threatened bankruptcy, or is bankruptcy a foregone conclusion, regardless of the new concessionary contracts. My opinion is that AA will declare bankruptcy in less than six months. It sure hurts to be right, while 69% of your fellow pilots rolled over for this management. There will be a lot of long silent hours spent over the Atlantic. I predict it will be rather difficult to find guys willing to admit they voted for this thing. Here's looking for another job very soon."

 

[Loafman]

A buddy on here told me he was part of the "31" club. the 31% that voted no. Well the "69" club better get used to that "69" view, because they'll be looking up that poop chute for quite a while.

 

[Birdstrike]

"Yes, but he did it completely out in the open!...unlike BOZO!!"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not only out in the open (Leo) but with a straight face claiming that the bonus compensation is to insure that we retain our top executives through this difficult period or something like that.

Please. Like, where are they going to go? If Leo and his team and AA and theirs end up driving their respective companies into the ground through mismanagment and/or other reasons, do they really think that other corporations are going to be lining up to recruit them next? Talk about an inflated view of yourself.

 

[AAflyer]

PROUD MEMBER OF THE 31 club


Sorry what is trying to be shoved down your throat Loafman.
I don't agree with that, or this TA, or anything this management team has to say.


AAflyer

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Fuk AMR.

I hope non of the 3 billion in tax dollars is going to this scumbag carrier!!

I certainlly feel bad for all the guys out of work and all the more to come (bancruptcy in inevitable) but I dont want to support it. Not one penny.

...always the little guy getting screwed...

 

[canadflyau]

FOX News is getting all over this story
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,84517,00.html

They were alluding toward scandal at the end of the "breaking news" segment @2:40

Send them an e-mail and bring them up to speed.. I think they are starting to figure out how we feel about airline management.. and they are just on the tip of the iceberg..
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

They had some pilots and union comments.. FOX is soaking this up like a sponge, and if you saw the report you saw their reaction...

 

[canadflyau]

It sounded like the FA union was definitely not going to sign... APA has yet to sign, and is in "legal talks."

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

The cynic side of me thinks ivory tower management leaked this information knowing full well the unions would then reject any concession deals as a result. They can now wash their hands and place the blame on labor and proceed with BK if labor doesn't cooperate.
Man I'm not old enough to be thinking like a cynical old fart.

 

[Boeingman]

The cynic side of me thinks ivory tower management leaked this information knowing full well the unions would then reject any concession deals as a result. They can now wash their hands and place the blame on labor and proceed with BK if labor doesn't cooperate.
Man I'm not old enough to be thinking like a cynical old fart.

I suspect you're right. It also could have been leaked by some disgruntled management type left out of the program.

Either way, it should be a lesson that unions of all flavors should review any SEC filings prior to these agreements with management (s) in the future.

Bottom line though is AA management will have destroyed any good will amongst the employees. They (management elite) just don't understand the term betrayel.

 

[AAflyer]

Boeingman,

That is well known, that is why many of us were leary when AMR would not file the SECpaperwork till we signed.

AAflyer

memeber of the 31 CLUB

 

[Boeingman]

Boeingman,

That is well known, that is why many of us were leary when AMR would not file the SECpaperwork till we signed.

AAflyer

memeber of the 31 CLUB

About the refusal to file the SEC paperwork, I would say that it shows how deep the willfull deception was against you guys.

These scumbag management teams never cease to amaze me. They have no clue how much damage a disgruntled and demoralized workforce can do. But a workforce that feels cheated will really cause problems.

Good luck to you guys.

 

[AAflyer]

Boeingman,

You are right on, that is why I voted NO, knowing that BK would surely mean my furlough. That is fine, I still need to look at myself in the mirror everday. I could not rightly sign an agreement that is DRACONION at best!!

It is also about the team, we need them GONE. There is a much better chane to wash our hands of this mang. team in BK. Forbes just stated that 17% of CEOs remain at the helm during BK.

With Carty's record I am sure the BOD, judge or DIP financers will request his leave.

I am p1ssed to high he11 but have to fly tonight, deep down I can not let this show at work or to our customers.

AAflyer
Member of the 31 CLUB

 

[canadflyau]

Defintely not "leaked" it was let out for the first time in the SEC filings, not a second before then.. They were tight lipped and definitely wanted to not share in the sacrafice with the rest of the employees. They also aren't planning on sharing any of the spoils with the employees along the way... Bonuses are only for upper mgt for meeting the benchmark goals set forth for the company. At United, all employees receive bonuses for meeting the benchmarks, but AMR told the unions "nope, thats not how it is going to work here" only at the end (6yrs from now,) if our credit rating has improved to_____, load factor is aminimum of ______%, and Jesus has returned will we then give company wide bonuses.

My dad was in the 31 club and all he could saw was "I knew it... dang, they took all I had left." He retires in 5 yrs and will be giving concessions until he retires, and not be around for the so called bonuses, or the next contract... He was supposed to upgrade to capt just after 9/11 and will retire an FO.

 

[seagle]

I think the whole thing is revolting. Just when you think you've seen it all, something like this comes along. AMR senior management are truly scumbag$! Selfish, selfcentered, selfserving, arrogant, egotistical, "all about me", screw the guy below me, etc, etc, etc. Did I miss any, feel free to chime in.

 

[Typhoon1244]

AMR senior management are truly scumbags! Selfish, selfcentered, selfserving, arrogant, egotistical, "all about me", screw the guy below me, etc, etc, etc.

You forgot "unsanitary."

It was suggested that AMR may have leaked the bonus information so that talks would break down and they could blame labor for losing the company. I don't think that blame would settle in with the public. Joe Blow on the street would be mad as heck if he had to take a 20% cut while his boss got a 200% raise.

Unlike most airline-labor issues where the public doesn't "get it," I think this time around Americans see Carty et al for what they really are...typical corporate dirtbags.

To paraphrase Major Stovall from Twelve O'Clock High, "the only difference between Don Carty and Frank Lorenzo is that Lorenzo is about that much taller."

 

[Boeingman]

To paraphrase Major Stovall from Twelve O'Clock High, "the only difference between Don Carty and Frank Lorenzo is that Lorenzo is about that much taller."

One think about Frank, and I guess we didn't for the lack of a better word, "appreciate" it at the time, was he would tell you to your face to pound sand. No matter what the subject. There were no backdoor deals. He porked you right up front.

In a sadistic way, Carty is even worse than Lorenzo with this facade of good faith bargaining while they were robbing the cookie jar behind APA's back (and others).

Now they were caught, then they decide to rescind the "bone-us's"

 

[Loafman]

Calling AMR senior management "scumbags" is a downright terrible and disgusting disservice to bags containing scum.

 

[PacoPollo]

Calling AMR senior management "scumbags" is a downright terrible and disgusting disservice to bags containing scum.

How about Corporate Thugs. Ala AMRon style

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

While I certainly don't have any stake on what is going on at AMR, the type of behavior ivory tower management displayed appears to be all too common in today's business world. Also see similar behavior with politicians and some would even argue the same thing with their union management (not implying APA).

I was shooting from the hip when I accused it being leaked (canad set the record straight, it was made known via SEC filings). Still think they'll attempt to blame someone else rather than themselves if BK is declared. The public may reject it but they have nothing to lose by trying especially if they're headed for the crapper.

I wonder if these people go into these jobs already high minded or if they change after they get into the ivory tower/inner circle? I ask the same thing of politicians. What would any of us do if we were in their shoes?

Nothing new, but the whole relationship breaks down when leaders can't be trusted and/or lack competency. The trust and competency thing can't be taken too lightly. We demand (or hope!) our car mechanic is being legit when we have our car repaired. Something as simple as having a honest and competent mechanic provides great peace of mind. We especially want it with our spouses. For those who have military experience, your service was probably more "enjoyable" under a commander who had these qualities (plus leadership ability) compared to a "Frank Burns" type. Hope the leadership at AMR will change their ways. If not, perhaps their replacements will be honorable folks.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Boeingman got it right!

In a sadistic way, Carty is even worse than Lorenzo with this facade of good faith bargaining while they were robbing the cookie jar behind APA's back (and others).



It reminds me of the Iraqui's waving white flags, and when our soldiers got close they fired on them.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Calling AMR senior management "scumbags" is a downright terrible and disgusting disservice to bags containing scum.

How about if we just agree that CAArty is an AAsshole?