Cargo to Regionals??

[CFI4LIFE]

This is probably a stupid topic and been beat to death, but I'll ask it anyway. Over all, how happy do you feel the pilot group for regionals in general is? Everyone knows first year pay is garbage, and it doesn't get a lot better for a long time... but overall how happy are you guys (and gals)?

I'm really struggling with what to do next. I'm about to upgrade to flying the jets at a 135 cargo outfit, but I'm not sure how long I want to stay here. Everyone knows the night shift sucks, but really I don't mind it all that much. I just know I don't want to do it long term (unless it with UPS, FedEx, etc... obviously). So I'm looking at 121 flying, or maybe the fractional route. Corporate is always an option, but I really like the idea of having somewhat of a schedule.

I guess the big issue is, with all the instability of the airline industry, is pursuing that route really a smart idea at this point? How happy are you all? I keep reading about all the flow backs and furloughs, and now these potential problems at Air Wisconsin. Just makes me wonder, who is gonna be around in five or ten years??? Would you have rather done something else? And I don't mean outside of aviation. All you former freight dogs, do you regret leaving? Anybody have differing opionions on the fractionals vs 121?

I don't know, sorry if this is a dead issue... I was just curious...

 

[wings421]

This is probably a stupid topic and been beat to death, but I'll ask it anyway. Over all, how happy do you feel the pilot group for regionals in general is? Everyone knows first year pay is garbage, and it doesn't get a lot better for a long time... but overall how happy are you guys (and gals)?

I'm really struggling with what to do next. I'm about to upgrade to flying the jets at a 135 cargo outfit, but I'm not sure how long I want to stay here. Everyone knows the night shift sucks, but really I don't mind it all that much. I just know I don't want to do it long term (unless it with UPS, FedEx, etc... obviously). So I'm looking at 121 flying, or maybe the fractional route. Corporate is always an option, but I really like the idea of having somewhat of a schedule.

I guess the big issue is, with all the instability of the airline industry, is pursuing that route really a smart idea at this point? How happy are you all? I keep reading about all the flow backs and furloughs, and now these potential problems at Air Wisconsin. Just makes me wonder, who is gonna be around in five or ten years??? Would you have rather done something else? And I don't mean outside of aviation. All you former freight dogs, do you regret leaving? Anybody have differing opionions on the fractionals vs 121?

I don't know, sorry if this is a dead issue... I was just curious...

Thats the million dollar question. Its certainly hard to evaluate the options. If it makes you feel any better I'm struggling with the same question. Nights suck, but making $19500/year does too. Good luck.

 

[CFI4LIFE]

Yeah, I knew it was a question with no real answer... just wanted to get people to start throwing out some feelings on all the options. Its discouraging to read these boards sometimes with all the negative posts. I know thats kind of the way the industry is, but still.

I hear ya about the pay! Taking a $10K plus loss in pay just to see the light of day seems silly! Maybe more of you that have done that can share your feelings.

 

[wil]

If my domicile was not closing (DFW) I would say that I have been pretty satisfied at ASA. It is not without it's problems but I think the good has far out weighed the bad.

First year pay stinks but it does get better. And, if you fly nap lines (CDO'S standups) it will be like your freight days, 9pm departure back home by 7am (some lines differ of course). You will fly 35-40 hours and get paid 75 or in the case of ASA, where we get underblock pay, you can get 78-80 hours of pay.

Upgrade times are slow across the board so you may want to factor that in as well based on your career decision. Also, consider your age. If you are in your 40's I would probably suggest you stay where you are but if you are younger with no family then maybe it is a smart move.

Having said all this, in the last 3 years, my wife and I have been to Ireland twice (biz class) and with our airline discounts we spent a fraction of what someone outside the industry would pay.

I think many on this board agree that the industry should see a general turn around by 2008. Or maybe a shake out with several carriers reborn by then or eliminated. This industry is cyclical in nature and where you are in the hiring cycle is key.

The short answer to your question is that my worst day at ASA is still better than the best day in my former career!! Cheers, wil

 

[Smacktard]

The short answer to your question is that my worst day at ASA is still better than the best day in my former career!! Cheers, wil

Amen to that. I'm reserve in Atl. I have the opportunity to work my old job when I'm sitting idly by. I can say without a doubt, sitting reserve with ASA in Atl and being subjected to the whims of scheduling is the equivilant of being a porn star compared to my old job. I had to come in early today for the old job and I started dreading it last night around 5:00. I NEVER feel like that the night before I start a reserve week.

 

[aa30]

I've got to agree with the above two posts. I am much more happy with 121 flying than I was with cargo. I am still not real thrilled about being away from home and my wife for the majority of the week, but that is just the nature of the beast which I chose to be a part of. I truly am not missing flying around at night, in the worst wx, in a POS plane. My wife certainly doesn't miss worrying if that same POS will get me home in the morning or whenever I might have made it home.
As wil alluded to, there are many perks with 121 flying -- it's not all about the benjamin's. Overall, my quality of life is 100% better, and it will continue to improve once I can hold a line. Good luck with your decision.

 

[rattler]

I left a freight job several years ago for a 121 job, and never looked back. The QOL at a regional is far superior to the freight job I had. Plus 121 reg's are what they are. They are much more restrictive, and give you more protections than 135 does.

 

[Caveman]

"Everyone knows first year pay is garbage, and it doesn't get a lot better for a long time... "

"Taking a $10K plus loss in pay just to see the light of day seems silly!"

Unless I'm misreading your posts you suggest that you are making about $29K at your current job. Every decent jet national (aka 'regionals') pays their 2nd year FO's more than that. There are a couple that don't, but there are several that will pay you mid 30's as a 2nd year FO. Take a look at airlinepay.com and see what the pay scales really are and then compare it to where you are now. As best as you can factor in upgrades and QOL and see how long it would take you to break even after a move. I left a $60k salaried position to go to Comair @ $16.00 an hour. Some folks thought I was nuts, but at the 2 1/2 year point I was making what I was prior to CMR and by the end of my fourth year I will break even. From that point on I'll be way ahead and I'm working less than I did at the other job. Granted, I lucked into an early upgrade, but guys that haven't upgraded and have similar longevity are making over $40K. To a man they are all very happy with their decision to leave non 121 jobs to come to Comair. IMO any decent jet national will give you similar results. The upgrades will be slower for a while but after the first year you can expect to make $30+ and around $40K during your third year as an FO. It would be great if the LCC's were hiring in bigger numbers but they aren't and none of the legacy carriers will be hiring for quite a while. Flying a CRJ/ERJ at a jet national isn't a bad gig at all. It could be better, but for us non-vampire types it's a decent job.

 

[AVI8V1]

I'm about to upgrade to flying the jets at a 135 cargo outfit

Stay and upgrade to PIC, log 1000 hours of turbine and then skip the regionals. Pay your dues there. No regional will have you "about to upgrade". Turbine PIC is what you really need. Short term pain, long term gain.

 

[AVI8V1]

Wait, I may have misunderstood... you are about to upgrade to the jet or in the jet? Because my BS advice may be different.

 

[Caveman]

"Stay and upgrade to PIC, log 1000 hours of turbine and then skip the regionals."

Just exactly where is he going to 'skip' to.

SWA will hire 135 folks but the competition is extremely tough. 1000 PIC at a 135 freight outfit is probably not going to make anyone competative at SWA. Possible, yes, but unlikely. Plus you still have to find a 73 type somewhere.

Frontier is allegedly still hiring but all their poolies have been advised that it might be awhile.

Alaska is a hiring a few. Again the competition is very stiff for just a few dozen jobs per year.

AirTran, while hiring, requires 121 turbine PIC (or the military equivilent).

JB wants time in 20K lb a/c.

No legacy carrier will be hiring for at least 5 years.

FedEx? UPS? Snowballs chance in Hades.

I heard that ASTAR (aka DHL) may be hiring 20 next year.

Frax? Depending on your personal preferences the frax may not even be as good as a good ERJ job. Besides, none of them have speedy upgrades either.

For the near term there isn't anywhere to skip to. If the upgrade at the 135 job pays well enough and you can live with the QOL for the next few years, stay there. If not, a good jet national flying CRJ/ERJ's is the next realistic step.

 

[AVI8V1]

QUOTE=Caveman
Just exactly where is he going to 'skip' to. [/QUOTE

It should be 1.5 years before he/she gets this 1000 hrs pic if he/she upgrades today. Who has a crystal ball to tell us what will happen after that?

SWA will hire 135 folks but the competition is extremely tough. 1000 PIC at a 135 freight outfit is probably not going to make anyone competative at SWA. Possible, yes, but unlikely. Plus you still have to find a 73 type somewhere.

a good jet national flying CRJ/ERJ's is the next realistic step

A CRJ/ERJ job won't get him a 73 type either.

No legacy carrier will be hiring for at least 5 years

I've heard rumors from the CAL side about hiring off the street within 5 years.



I think your advice is very good, I'm not trying to cherry pick. I must be bored.

 

[Caveman]

AVI8V1,

No offense taken. Your comment about still needing a 73 type for SWA no matter what he does is very valid and you're also correct that a crystal ball in this profession is essentially useless. This business can change overnight.

 

[FL990]

Stay and upgrade to PIC, log 1000 hours of turbine and then skip the regionals. Pay your dues there. No regional will have you "about to upgrade". Turbine PIC is what you really need. Short term pain, long term gain.

This is not entirely true...I know several guys doing exactly what he is describing and they cannot find a job at any major carrier. They have been turned down at SWA, Alaska, America West, Air Tran, and Jet Blue...Also with Fedex. And they all had 1000+ PIC JET at a 135 cargo op. One of them was even turned down by ASA. Lots of these companies want to see people who come from quality flying backgrounds right now..ie companies who don't push the regs. But I am not belittling your flying...you guys work hard and you fly the "real planes" without great autopilots into the bad weather in the middle of the night...I'm sure you are a dang good pilot...but what I am saying has been the reality. Getting back to the guys I know..most of them that are leaving right now are going to the fractionals.

I'm not saying turn down the Cap upgrade and leave, but I am saying that you shouldn't necessarily expect to leave there with your 1000 PIC and go right to SWA. In years past, it would have been no problem, but right now it may be a different story.

 

[AVI8V1]

I had no idea it was so frowned upon. Maybe it's the pilot's attitudes?? You know, salty and grizzled.

Freight pilots are the real deal, they should get jobs with the big boys.