Career Experiences & Loans

[Joshrk22]

Okay, so I'm a 16 year old getting ready to start training within the next month or so. I'm trying to tell my parents I'm going to eventually need a loan to get all my ratings, PPL-MEI. They are really against getting a loan in case I don't get a job and can't pay for it. They have no clue about this industry and think I should "start my flight training when I'm 30", no joke. I keep trying to tell them "start now at 16; PPL, ME, and INS at 17; COMM, CFI, CFII, and MEII when I'm 18. My dad thinks flight instructing is "not a part time job" and sees no use in it. I keep trying to tell him that it's how to build flight time, but he only sees it as a way to fly more. Can you guys list: How old you are now, how old you were when you started, how many hours you have, what ratings you have, how much did it cost, did you take a loan out, and where are you currently ask. I told them that I wanted to fly for the air force or guard too, but they are totally against the military, oh well, they don't have much say in that decision. I really want to start training soon and start building time. I'm not saying I need to take a loan out, but when 17 or 18 rolls around, I'm going to have to. Comments....

 

[minitour]

I'll try to hit your questions all at once:

Age: 23
When Started: 21 (2 years ago this month I started)
Hours: Almost 400
Ratings: Commercial Airplane Single and Multi - Instrument Airplane
CFI Airplane Single Engine - Instrument Airplane
Total Cost: $50k
Loan: Yes (more on this later)
Work: "Part Time/Full Time" CFI and work Retail to pay bills (for now)

I'd definitely recommend starting now. You're 16 so you can solo, do your knowledge exam, get all the junk out of the way and take your checkride when you turn 17.

I'd definitely recommend AGAINST taking out a loan. Do whatever you have to do to avoid it.

A few things that might help:
Talk to the local FBOs and see if you can teach ground schools for a discount on flying time/instruction. You just need an AGI and/or IGI depending on the classes you want to teach. Fairly simple knowledge tests (including the FOI) and you're set...don't even have to be a pilot. This could save you some cash and earn you some at the same time.

Military - if you want to go military, start talking to the Air Force...see what it will take to get into the academy...gotta have good grades I'm sure...and good vision, etc. If so, just get your private pilot certificate local and let the gubment pay for the rest. I've got a student going this route...pretty neat.

ME - Unless your goal is airlines, I'd advise against the private MEL add on. Just do your private, instrument, commercial single THEN commercial multi-add-on, CFI, CFII and MEI...start instructing in the air as soon as you can. CFI isn't something I thought I'd like but I love it now...absolutely love it. Good times!

If ya have any other questions, drop me a PM...be glad to help where I can.

-mini

 

[MFRskyknight]

They are really against getting a loan in case I don't get a job and can't pay for it.

And?

Seriously, they have a good point. And so does mini -- this is the kind of thing you want to avoid taking out a loan on if at all possible. Work two jobs (like I do) and build time, get your ratings at an FBO. You have no shortage of time, either, if you're only 16. There are so many ways to get burned on loans it will make your head spin.

I'm 22, about 120 hours now, with an instrument rating. Just building time (~15 hours a month) for the commercial and having fun.

MFR

 

[BRIGADEAVIATOR]

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Okay, so I'm a 16 year old getting ready to start training within the next month or so. I'm trying to tell my parents I'm going to eventually need a loan to get all my ratings, PPL-MEI. They are really against getting a loan in case I don't get a job and can't pay for it. They have no clue about this industry and think I should "start my flight training when I'm 30", no joke. I keep trying to tell them "start now at 16; PPL, ME, and INS at 17; COMM, CFI, CFII, and MEII when I'm 18. My dad thinks flight instructing is "not a part time job" and sees no use in it. I keep trying to tell him that it's how to build flight time, but he only sees it as a way to fly more. Can you guys list: How old you are now, how old you were when you started, how many hours you have, what ratings you have, how much did it cost, did you take a loan out, and where are you currently ask. I told them that I wanted to fly for the air force or guard too, but they are totally against the military, oh well, they don't have much say in that decision. I really want to start training soon and start building time. I'm not saying I need to take a loan out, but when 17 or 18 rolls around, I'm going to have to. Comments....

Age: 23
When Started: 2001
Hours: Near 400 last time i added it up
Ratings: See side note
Total Cost: $40k
Loan: Yes (not a trustfund kid or member of the lucky sperm club).
Work: Many hats at our local FBO, own a small business
Military: No

Of course your parents wont' know much about something they dont understand. Have them scan www.aopaflighttraining.org

 

[jaxpilot]

Age: 21
Started: 2003 (age 18)
Hours: 350
Ratings: CFI-II-MEI-AGI
Total cost: ~40k (plus interest)
Loan: Yes
Work: Line guy
Currently: Line guy/ college student and fly with a student that has his own plane (freelance i guess). looking for flight school job in the area.

 

[Flysher]

Age: 20
Started: 2003 (age 18)
Hours: 975
Ratings: CFI, CFII, MEI, AGI, IGI
Total cost: ~50K
Loan: Yes
Work: Full time CFI, Freight dawg in a few weeks
Currently: CFI workin towards 1050 TT to start training with Airnet, enrolling into MSU online courses, i have about 40 credits towards an associates in aviation science and technology from all the ratings i have aquired.

My advice


DO NOT GET A LOAN!!!!!

Trust me.

It will ruin your life

You will lose sleep worrying over how to pay it back

Your hair will turn grey before you can legally drink beer

You will have to keep your wallet chained to your pants because it will be so light itll float away if you dont!!!

Other than that, have a blast, its been a hell of a ride so far and i love it despite having to staple carpet samples to myself to keep warm.

 

[Joshrk22]

Thank you for all your replies everyone. Keep them comin'

 

[pilotyip]

Started at age 22, got Comm, Inst SEL and MEL at age 24. Cost $0, in fact I was paid a decent salary while learning to fly, but I did owe Uncle Sam's flying boat club 5 years of active duty in 1968

 

[SBD]

Age: Got some
Started: 2003
Hours: 870
Total cost: Enough to buy an S-Class
Loan: Fortunately no
Work: Full time CFI

Do you whatever you can to not take out a loan. When I was younger I made some smart stock investments. Sold them and here I am today. I should have been a stock broker. Oh well. Live and learn youngster!

 

[MauleSkinner]

My parents paid for the PPL training when I was 16/17. Started scrounging time where I could...worked at the airport, made friends, & flew airplanes.

All my high school buddies had cars, stereos, motorcycles, etc. I flew airplanes.

All my college buddies drank beer, chased women, etc. I flew airplanes.

Everybody I know now has a life...I fly airplanes.

Never took out a loan for flying. (well, when my first college student loan came through, I joined the glider club at the airport, but... )

You can get yourself in a LOT of trouble taking out loans for flight training...by the time you're done, the payments are going to be 100% or more of your pay for the first couple of years. I have a friend who, in his late 30's, finally got out of the financial trouble that borrowing for his flying caused him when he was 20.

Good luck!

David

 

[CrewDawg]

Age: 22
Started: Fall 02
Hours: 500
Job: CFI
Loans = 5000
Ratings - Comercial SE & ME land; Inst. Airplane. CFI.
Also got a college degree.

Joined the Air National Guard and let uncle foot the bill. Probably the best decision for me. They pay tuition (100%) in most states, GI Bill, Kicker, Student Loan Repament (up to 20k), and depending on your job a nice sign on bonus. Coming up on 5 years and have loved every minute of it (minus basic=gay). I have been able to travel all over the U.S., and oversees including Spain which was the highlight of that trip. I have also been fortunate in that I have not been deployed for large amounts of time. Fighter units tend not to get deployed as much as our heavy brothers.

Also being in the guard helped my get a flight slot with my guard unit. I am serving as a F-16 crew dawg right now and
I have 1 year left on my enlisted commitment. If I lose my medical for my pilot slot, I'll prolly just get out. I have enjoyed my service and am glad I have did it. But coming home for drill once a month (at E-5 pay) is not easy with a career in aviation (limits my opportunities). Goodluck.

 

[WGP guy]

Just building time (~15 hours a month) for the commercial and having fun.

MFR

Thats about 1600 at most FBOs, thats a LOT to manage for a 16 year old even with 2 jobs.

I seriously doubt I (15 years old) could make over 1000 per month with 2 jobs, even if I was 16. Right now I'm getting by with 2.5 hours a month paying half of it from savings (not college savings or anything, I actually started a savings account for flight training kinda). But, I'm going to get a job as soon as I am 16 and can solo, $70 an hour is much better than 110, so I can manage more.

Anyway:

Age: 15
Started: Winter 05
Hours: 7
Job: none
Loans = none
Ratings - student soon

 

[scubabri]

Age: 40
PPL : Sept 2001
Hours: 3000
Cost: about 18,000 for training and another $30,000 for the flight time
Job: 135 Lear F/O
Loans: None

When I changed careers, it occured to me that as I was building time, my income would be close to nothing. My options were to get a part time job in my old career to pay the bills for my new career, but that would reduce my time and ability to move should a job come up, or to suck it up, get rid of all my bills, and pay cash for my training and live as cheap as I could (tuna and beans) until built enough time to get a real job

So, I begged and traded for flight time to get my first 500 hours and then found a job flying skydivers, did that for 6 months and got my next job as a CFI. I spent every extra $ on flight time in whatever I could fly. I built time between teaching and flying at night at about 100 hours or more a month.

Now that I am 40, I may have no savings, just like I was when I was 20, but I also have no debt, so it makes living on the cheap VERY easy.

Don't take the easy road and get loans or get aviation degree's at some high priced aviation school. Do it the old fashioned way, work a part time job, scrimp save and don't be impatient.

Why? it's more fun, you'll get better experience, and when it comes down to it, when you do have the time you need for your dream job, you will be qualified for that job with skills and not just total time.

Once you get that dream job, instead of buying a new car and blowing all your cash, get a good savings for a furlough fund, 1-2 years of living expenses.

When you are done with that, start saving for retirement, when you get a good start on that.. THEN have some fun with your hard earned money.

Oh, how does this relate to someone that is 16 just starting out? Because whether you are 16 or 40, we all start our aviation training in pretty much the same way, and unless you a rich.. we all have to fund it pretty much the same ways.

good luck.

sb

 

[hoop]

Good post Scubabri! I am 34 and this is pretty much the path I'm taking..... Just having a bit of a hard time with the patients part!

 

[skygod75]

30 years old and glad I got out of this f'ing racket. Go find yourself a stable career path and leave the flying as a hobby. Your parents are correct: you may not get a job, you won't pay back your loans, and filing the almighty BK to get out of 'em is harder these days. Go to the airport and look at all those cattle bus drivers walking from gate to gate. You'll see some of the most unhappy faces around. That should tell you something.

 

[MFRskyknight]

Thats about 1600 at most FBOs, thats a LOT to manage for a 16 year old even with 2 jobs.

I seriously doubt I (15 years old) could make over 1000 per month with 2 jobs, even if I was 16. Right now I'm getting by with 2.5 hours a month paying half of it from savings (not college savings or anything, I actually started a savings account for flight training kinda). But, I'm going to get a job as soon as I am 16 and can solo, $70 an hour is much better than 110, so I can manage more.

I am referring of course to time without an instructor. 15 hours a month @ $60 for a 152 runs me about $800 (block time discount), usually less 'cause somehow it always ends up that I don't get to fly that much. Stupid Oregon weather for ya.

If I was 15, I'd get whatever job you can and save up some cash for your private. Even if you make as little as $500 a month mowing lawns or something (don't laugh, there are CFIs out there that would envy you), and your 16th birthday is at least a few months off, you would have a couple grand on hand to get your solo and well into your training.

Just try not to spend it all on penny candies and wiener whistles.

MFR