Career choice

[PHX767]

Ahh, I can't help throwing my 2 cents in.

When I was instructing for a smallish flight school in the ATL area, I had a student leave and go to one of the big Florida schools. He called me a few weeks later and said, "When you are sitting at the end of the runway sweating in a C-152, it doesn't really matter what school you are paying for. It's all up to the instructor."

And that's what it is all about. What is the quality of the instruction you receive? Your certificate will say the same words no matter where you get the training, but the instruction you get now will stay with you the rest of your career.

Get the best instruction for the least buck$. Word of mouth is the best referral. And for goodness sake, if your CFI is not working out, change! You are the customer.

Good luck.

 

[bobbysamd]

Flight Schools

Great discussion. I took all my primary training from instructors who had their own airplanes, bought a type rating at a small outfit in San Diego, and instructed at Riddle-Prescott for two-and-a-half years, FlightSafety for just over a year, Mesa for three months (that can be a subject for another thread ) and a small outfit that primarily trained pilots for types and the United checkride but had a Middle East primary contract. Thus, I feel I've experienced a representative cross-section of flight training.

Large schools have their pros and cons. The pros include great availability of resources, i.e. more staff, instructors, airplanes and sims. We had plenty of aircraft and good availability of new Frasca sims at FSI. Now, this is over ten years ago, but I don't recall ever having to canx or maintenance a flight because of not having aircraft. The disrespect exhibited by the then-management to instructors and bureaucratic problems across campus are another issue.

Embry-Riddle did not have enough airplanes and was top-heavy with managers and supervisors, with most of them knowing nothing. You bounced from person to person sometimes to receive an answer to the simplest of questions. It was called the "Riddle runaround." The support staff on the flight line was great, however. Unless you were there in the summer, most students needed forever to finish flight courses, and the loss of momentum hurt their training. On the other hand, they received a great education, especially in systems and aerodynamics. Another point is the Prescott airport couldn't handle all the Riddle planes at once, so we sometimes spent long holds at the end of the runway waiting to take off (well, maybe that DOES prepare one for the real world of airline flying )

Mesa's program really does work. I've seen it. I can find students I had on the AVWEB pilot database of whom I'm 100% confident made it to the line (I can tell by their mailing addresses). The place is much smaller than FSI or Riddle and students are under great pressure to complete their courses, to the point of being ridiculous. Moreover, they had to conduct themselves absolutely beyond reproach in every respect, or they wouldn't receive the coveted (paid-for) interview. In other words, have a counselling session even once with the Chief Instructor and your ass is grass. They did get a good education with a two-year degree from San Juan College. Flight training was fine overall, but lacked in some aspects, in my .02 opinion.

You have to choose what's best for your learning style. It really does matter where you train, because you want the best flight training possible for the money, with name recognition of your school or FBO being important as well. If I had it to do all over again, at the point I decided to change careers, I would have gone to a well-known 141 school because I enjoy going to class and do well in a structured setting.

Hope these thoughts help your selection.

 

[sstearns2]

Internship

You should seriously concider getting your degree from a school where you can get an internship with a major airline. My brother went to San Jose State in CA and did an internship with United. It was 3 months of being a slave to the training dept with no pay, but what he got was 2 guarenteed interviews. The internship is what got him his job with United.

Also, concider going to a junior college while you get your flying ratings and then transferring to a university with your CFI. The JC route can save a lot of money and the classes are of the same quality as a university.

Good luck and have fun,

Scott

 

[SF3CAP]

If you're just needing the ratings, and not the degree, there are lots of much more affordable alternatives than FSI and Embry R. Check out Airman Flight School in Oklahoma. Affordable, quick, and year-round good WX. www.airmanflightschool.com

 

[bobbysamd]

Westwind - Deer Valley

Anyone know if Maynard "Abe" Abrams is still the DE at Deer Valley?

Just wondering.

 

[bobbysamd]

MAPD grads not interviewed

Just for discussion's sake, I've always wondered what's happened to the Mesa students who didn't get the Mesa interview. Anyone know how they've fared? I always imagined some conehead interviewer asking, "Everyone knows that Mesa interviews its flight school graduates. How come YOU weren't interviewed?" I realize that sh-t happens, but I would hate to be confronted by that question.

 

[Crabtree]

Thaks for all the replys so far there is alot fo good advice. If anyone else has any comments, or just for the record, I live about 30 mins east of Indianapolis. So, I am pretty sure that no matter where I go I am going to have to relocate for that amount of time. So it doesnt really matter where/what state I go to get my training.

I had one school picked out I wanted to go to, but they are in the process of going from 61 to 141, and as it turns out, all my financial aid I am approved for is for mainly 141 schools (key alternative). They said someone has come to look at the school, but waiting to see if they are approved or not, does anyone know how long this process takes? Also, they havnt said it but from the way they have talked, they will require less hours to be 141 vs. 61. Does this make sense? Is there less required hours for 141 compared to 61?????

Thanks,
Crabtree

 

[bobbysamd]

61 v. 141 hours

Actually, or should I say theoretically, 141 does require fewer hours. If you can train in minimum times, you can get your initial Commercial at 190 hours. Now, bear in mind that I said theoretically. As a practical matter, even the Chuck Yeagers of the world need at least a few more hours than the minimums to finish. There is nothing wrong with this, unless it is excessive. It does mean that you should plan to pay more for the course than what the "career consultants" at the school say it will cost.

Part 61 mins for Private, bottom line, are 40 hours, and for Commercial, 250 hours (correction of typo). Here again, most people run over those times.

In my .02 opinion, a 141 school is the way to go if you choose a school over FBO. As you have discovered, 141 schools must meet specific FAA criteria for size and adequacy of classrooms, adequacy of equipment, standardization of syllabus, etc. The Chief Instructor and assistants must meet meet specific FAA quals as well, including taking checkrides with the FAA ASI assigned to the school. Instructors must receive standardization and take a ride with the Chief or Assistant Chief before they can be turned loose. Also, many 141 schools have self-examining authority, meaning that you do not have to take checkrides with FAA examiners after you graduate. That can have its pluses and minuses.

As an aside, there are 141 schools for such things as type ratings. I also believe there are 141 schools for crop dusting and other special aircraft uses as well.

Apart from being trained properly, what you are really after is results. Try to find graduates of the school who've achieved the goal you're after. Ask them if they feel the school furthered their goals.

Hope that helps. Once again, good luck with your choice of training.

 

[Crabtree]

What kind of plane do most first pilots start out on? (As far as regionals) Say if you were to go to ComAir, American Eagle etc.

 

[FlyinBrian]

bobbysamd: I think Abe Abrahms lost his designation. I don't think the Feds yanked it, I think they just refused to renew it. I don't have details on why.

crabtree: The easy answer to your question is that they start pilots in whatever equipment they need first officers in. Because jets are more popular with pilots than props are, it usually means most newhire slots go to props. In my class at Eagle, I beleive if memory serves, 11 went to regional jets, 13 went to Saab 340's, and 3 went to ATR's. However, the class before and the class after were distributed totally differently. (usually more than 3 ATR's.) I think you'll find about the same story at other airlines. How they determine who gets what equipment varies considerably. At Eagle, it's by age. (seniority within a newhire class is determined this way as well.) The oldest guy in the class gets to pick from the available slots for that class. At Mesa, I think it's more luck of the draw. I believe Mesa is also no longer putting newhires into jets because too many were failing training.