Career Advice Needed

[MarineGrunt]

Here's the Deal:

In May, I will be graduating from the Aviation program at the University of North Dakota. I will have a little over 300 hours with my CFII and most likely MEI.

I have two good opportunities to be a flight instructor, an unlikely shot at being an instructor at UND, and an almost guaranteed job at my hometown FBO. There are pros and cons of each and I was just wondering if anyone could chime in and give me some advice.

The good thing about instructing here at UND, is that I would always have students and that a lot of regionals and commuters come here to hire. The bad thing is that the pay is crap when you start out (about $8/hr), and gradually gets better. But I think within a few months you can make $15/hr if you have your MEI.

The good thing about my hometown FBO, is the pay is much, much better and I will have more opportunites to log hours. There are a lot of people I know of around there that would be more than happy to take me up with them when they go flying to help me build some time.

Any pointers so far?

Another thing I was considering, for farther down the road, is to start flying freight and to continue doing it for the long run. I was thinking that big companies such as FedEx and UPS wont be as sensative to a negative economy and terrorisim, so that would lower my chances of being furloughed.

So whattya guys and gals think? Thanks in advance!

 

[bigsky]

It half dozen of one and six of the other. My first instructor job payed 8 per hour and right next door they paid 20. I stayed at the lower paying job because I knew I would be mostly CFII and MEI vs all private and aerobatic.
UND has a good reputation, standardized, recognized and obviously has the potential to get multi and instrument students. Also your students are going to be better and more motivated.
On the other hand cash is sometimes nice- Will you be able to get multi or instrument students? Sometimes the benefit of the fbo is if they have a 135 certificate and you get to fly a king air or something.
As far as flying cargo I would not limit my options. Get some good solid experience and you will be marketable to both sides. Then you can worry about that choice!

 

[Dep676]

Well first of all you need to change your profile. I would not consider yourself a student. That's just my 2 cents.

As for what job to take. I would take the one that is going to pay more and give you the most hours in the shortest amount of time. I would think you still should be able to get on with a regional even if you don't instruct at UND. I know Piedmont hires a lot UND grads. I don't who else does. You have to ask yourself what you want to do and how long do you want to take to get there. Do what you feel is right for you. I know asking advice here helps. We are not in your shoes and don't rely on someone here to make up your mind. Only you can do that for yourself.

Does the FBO at home have a 135 operation? If so that would probably be your best bet. Once you reach the magic number 1200 you could start flying charter. Also if they have a VFR 135 you can start doing that at 500 hrs.

I think Airnet likes low time guys also. I don't know for sure though. Maybe some Airnet guys cabn chime in on that one. In todays market take what you can get to keep you flying and building time. That is if you are getting paid. Don't whore yourself out either.

Good Luck and remember it's your life and your decision.

 

[poorFITgrad'02]

de ja vu?

Wow, when I read your scenario, I almost thought it was me just before graduation again.....

I was in the exact same boat: I was about to graduate Florida Tech and I had two options. One was to stay in FL, be an instructor at FIT making not very much and having very few students to begin with, but with the potential for MEI work as my seniority increased and work for a reputable 141 operation, which some pepople have said that it makes no difference instructing at either one, as far as what the airlines look for, but part of me has to disagree with that, I mean a 141 operation is conducted in an airline training atmosphere (standards, blah, blah...) so I'd have to assume that would make SOME kind of difference. Or I could go up to a part 61 operation in the North East with whom I did an internship the summer before instructing mainly private and a few instrument/commericals. Drawbacks to the part 61 included no multi instruction, winter time will slow things down, BUT it does have a 135 operation tied to it. Past FIT grads had gone up there, got their 1200 (rather quickly, I logged 330 hours total time from late may to early august 2001) and moved right into a freight or charter run, building that all elusive twin time. Good things about the 61 operation are, winter flying experience, and if anyone ever moves on from the charter or frieght, I have a shot at getting a 135 and building mucho multi time.

You have to weigh some things; how busy is your 61 operation back home YEAR ROUND. Like you said, UND will always have a base of students to help you, less chance of having a light week flying wise. However, how long will it take to get MEI students at UND? If your part 61 op. has a 135 job as the next step, I might consider that route, especially cause you'd be home, which may or may not be a factor for you (cost of living?).

i would look at it like this (and this is how I view my situation now): Its all about risk vs. benefit or reward. Usually the higher the risk, the higher the benefit, example: your part 61 operation may give you a ton of hours to start, but, if the customer base there is like the customer base here, many people are working adults who are in the flying thing cause they have extra cash. This economy sort of forces people to limit their extra cash spending, therefore you may see a slowdown in student starts there. But the benefits could be great if you build a ton of time and there is a 135 operation. UND may not offera ton of time, but thier customer base is a little different: college students who have tons of loans or tons of their own money and there will always be kids wanting to go to the big flight schools.....

What does all this mean? You have to decide the route you want to take. There is no wrong answer. There is no instant shot at the airlines (especially these days). You're gonna be instructing for at least a year, maybe two. But better that than to be furloughed.

Did I make the right call going to the 61 op? We shall see, some things changed up here (unforseen) and now the 135 slots are drifting away a little further each day. I am looking at a backup plan (Flight Safety, anyone know if they are hiring???) to try and use my MEI if the 135 doesnt pan out like I'm hoping in the next few months. Guessing, I would say that at FIT, right now I'd have a somewhat decent student load and be moving up the list a little to get some Multi students, who knows for sure....but I wouldnt have 1140 hours total, thats for sure.

Hope all that helped a little......remember, if you want to fly airlines, cargo, whatever, you will eventually...enjoy the journey.

 

[Cardinal]

The little things can really affect one's attitude...poorFITgrad had the privelege of flying an aircraft without an operating door handle last night...I had to wiggle, jiggle and tap my landing light to get it to work. It seems the universities at least have their maintenance act together.

Though you'll find a cross-section of the populace anywhere, the colleges at least have students that are pointed in the right direction with a strong technical/regulatory background. But when you're training guys off the street 4 out of 5 will seem like "special-ed" students, some will leave you wondering how they can function in society, much less fly an airplane.

There's that old saw about "flying the same hour, a thousand times" Life at an FBO can be pretty interesting, in the past month I've spent time in 7 different types, visited both LGA and grass strips, and learned a heck of alot.

 

[poorFITgrad'02]

one guy i had today wasnt special ed.....he opened the window and got himself out with the outside door handle....dont even think id figure that one out!! good thing we werent in the arrow (one door) and no opening that window.

yeah, sorry to say that your typical part 61 FBO's maintainence isn't quite up to the speed and efficency of a 141 school for various reasons. could be a good experience though as far as being thrown different situations. and you also have to (or get to) make a lot of calls yourself: the weather looks iffy, do I go? versus a 141 school which will pretty much tell you to go or not per company procedures, policies, etc...., similar to the airlines i guess.

also, instructing 61 means that you make the syallbus and structure the lesson. 141 of course has a syllabus and a concrete order to follow. having gone through UND's program, you are probably familiar with weather policies, syllabus setups, equipment.....

 

[bobbysamd]

141 at UND v. 61 at an FBO

I would choose the UND job if you can get it for several reasons. For one thing, it's a great reference to be hired at a top college program from which you graduated. That will look good on your resume. I remember that when I was at Riddle there was big competition for the CFI jobs that opened every fall. You will have a more steady student base. You will get multi time sooner. You know the territory, the facilities and the program. You know that you will be flying decent equipment because you know the equipment. That is important because if airplanes are down for maintenance you can't make money.

I realize the money may not be as good as your FBO, but you know it will improve and it will be more steady. Chances are, the benies will be better at UND. You may get no benefits at your FBO. You also won't have to worry about hustling work because it will be doled out to you. You also have some idea about the material with which you'll be working and its motivation, or lack thereof. The quality of your FBO students may vary.

Of course, as times improve the commuters will once again pick up flight instructors from such places as UND and Riddle. So, by working at UND you may position yourself well for when hiring improves.

Hope this input helps. Good luck with the rest of school and with your decision.

 

[172driver]

Where are you most likely to get multi time? That's what it all comes down to. Not many employers will touch you without at least 100 hrs. Can you buy it? If not, stay with UND. Either way, multi time always looks better when it was built as an MEI rather than bought. Reason being that you are constantly dealing with simulated emergencies while instructing. IMO, the FBO would probably be better treatment, pay, and more fun. If you can fly a twin there, go for it.