Captain Upgrade at Southwest

[Hoke]

Despite the fact that I work there, someone asked me the other day how long to upgrade at SW nowadays and I honestly didn't know. I have a ballpark idea, somewhere around 6 years. Does this still hold true...

Chase?
SWA F/O?
Canyonblue?
Anyone else know?

 

[maxpwrset]

Hoke,

If you go to the SWAPA site, there's a link you can click on that will kinda estimate when you will upgrade. You can change variables, such as # of aircraft taken, age 60, etc... Obviously reality can be different, much different, from the model, but it's as good a swag as anything.

 

[SWA/FO]

I'm sticking to 5 - 6.5 years as my answer. I don't like what the SWAPA site says - I don't believe it.

 

[Slug]

I have recently flown with two CPs whose upgrade occurred almost to the date at the 6 year point. This is at MDW, times may vary.

As an aside, the upgrade time to line holding CP is the shortest at BWI, but the upgrade to Lance is shortest at MDW.



Slug

 

[Jim Smyth]

It depends on if you mean to be a lance Captain or actualy be sitting in the seat. If you did a search on this issue, as of 11-28-05 here is what I had put up in that thread.
___________________________________________________________________

Also, to getting back to the orginal question. Your upgrade will depend on where you want to be based/live. The bases that are senior for the most part are in order from when there were put on line. If you want to be a Dallas Captain you will wait a very long time. Bases came on line in the below order. The number next to each base it the very most junior Captain in that base as of this month.

1. Dallas............11 years, 8 months
2. Houston..........8 years, 5 months
3. Phoenix...........8 years, 5 months
4. Chicago...........6 years, 5 months
5. Oakland...........6 years, 8 months
6. Baltimore.........6 years, 4 months
7. Orlando...........6 years, 8 months

Also when I say junior CAPTAIN above I am refering that he/she holds the Captain seat (not a lance). You will upgrade sooner than the years posted above and you are called a lance Captain. Lances upgrade when they get in the top 8 percent senority of the base they are in. So when you are a lance you can pick up Captain trips on days off if you wish and are paid at Captain rates for the extra trips you pick up in the left seat while still being a senior FO. This allows you to build some left seat time before you are actulay tossed into the hopper. This also allows lance Captains that are already trained to be used by the company, so if the company gets a few more unexpected airplanes. Then there isnt a problem with slideing a few guys over to the left seat ASAP.

 

[StopNTSing]

I'm an Oct '99 hire, and will probably upgrade sometime this summer as a Lance in PHX. Yeah, the upgrades ain't what they used to be...
...but then again, neither is the senior FO pay! :beer:

 

[want2fly]

How long to hold lance capt in BWI?

 

[pedropcola]

Took me 6 years 4 months to lance in BWI

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

Even more reason to call your senators and tell them to keep the age 60, if it changes you are looking at another two years on top of those posted earlier. Unless if they want to change it so that the old guy can only sit in the right seat is of course fine with every fo that doesnt want his or her upgrade delayed two years. this delay is straight from the swapa projector.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Even more reason to call your senators and tell them to keep the age 60, if it changes you are looking at another two years on top of those posted earlier. Unless if they want to change it so that the old guy can only sit in the right seat is of course fine with every fo that doesnt want his or her upgrade delayed two years. this delay is straight from the swapa projector.

Lets see, a straight forward question about upgrade that once again turns into "get that old guy out of my seat"! Very short sighted indeed! Your turn is coming...............

 

[canyonblue737]

i thnk 5-7 years is a honest good guess... with 6 being the median and current time frame. FO pay is outstanding and ramps up quickly though.

 

[radarlove]

i thnk 5-7 years is a honest good guess... with 6 being the median and current time frame. FO pay is outstanding and ramps up quickly though.

Just questioning your math here. How would 6 be the "median"? The median means there are the same number above and below. From the previous poster's research, assuming it's correct, the absolute shortest time listed is six years, four months.

So a median, taking all of the upgrades into account would be well above seven years.

Where did you get the 5 from? I don't know if that guy's work is correct, but if so, there doesn't seem to be a five year upgrade at Southwest, it looks like it's almost seven years at the earliest, later if you're based in the South.

 

[Alcatraz]

I'd guess 4-8 years for a newhire.

I think the most honest answer will be that it will take at least 4 years, probably more like 6 or more to be a junior captain at a junior base. I'd be happy with 8 as a recent newhire.

Any guess beyond 4 years at any airline is a wild guess in my opinion... a lot can happen in that period of time. Just think where this industry was 5 years ago (pre-9/11).

Also, remember the longevity of current upgrades is NOT indicative of a newhire's upgrade time.

The good news is, like StopNTSing and canyonblue said, being a senior FO is a pretty good deal!

 

[radarlove]

I'd guess 4-8 years for a newhire.

I'm sorry, I just gotta call "bull" on this. Where in the hell did you even come up with four years?

Y'know, I think it's great that SWA is actually upgrading and that's something that can't even be said about a good part of the industry, but I've been hearing these fantasy numbers from you guys for years now. I suspect the very last five year upgrade at SWA to ever happen happened before Sept. 11th.

Some math here: if you're a new-hire, you have to wait for the airline to double in size (unless there's huge retirements, no so at SWA) to upgrade. They have over 450 planes, so how long to 900? Four years? Not.

I'm not complaining about SWA, just about your guy's tendancy to ignore the reality. "How long to upgrade?" "About four years." WTF? Name the last guy that upgraded in four years?

I have several friends over there, most hired after Sept. 11th and nobody is anywhere near upgrade. As that guy who actually looked up the numbers (imagine that!) showed, upgrade is nearly seven years, eight at some domiciles, not four not five and not six. Unless SWA buys another airline and staples, that upgrade time isn't going to jump down.

Jet Blue, Airtran and others are upgrading in four years or so, but SWA is no longer. It's the new reality.

 

[blzr]

Since you are already typed on the 737, when you DO upgrade, is it just another recurrent? Or do you have to go to another 2 weeks of training?

 

[Cheesemo]

Upgrade

I have first hand knowledge of upgrade NOW. As you know, the time it takes to upgrade ebbs and flows. However, I don't think it will shorten appeciably in the future.

I have a Sep '99 hire date and could be a lance captain in BWI or MDW. I am within a couple of numbers from being a lance in HOU. I think a good number if 6-61/2 to lance and close to 7 for capt.

FWIT,

Cheesemo

 

[Pinto]

My 2 cents at upgrade times

I think that the current approx. 6.5 year upgrade time at Southwest is due to the 2 to 3 years of very limited hiring after Sept 2001. My guess (hope) is that for people hired after 2004 the upgrade time will come back down towards the more traditional earliest possible upgrade time of 4.5 to 5 years (assuming that hiring at SWA continues at current rates and scheduled retirements happen at age 60)

 

[canyonblue737]

I think that the current approx. 6.5 year upgrade time at Southwest is due to the 2 to 3 years of very limited hiring after Sept 2001. My guess (hope) is that for people hired after 2004 the upgrade time will come back down towards the more traditional earliest possible upgrade time of 4.5 to 5 years (assuming that hiring at SWA continues at current rates and scheduled retirements happen at age 60)

well based on the SWAPA calculator which has known retirements and the assumption that SWA will excersize all Boeing order options I show a 6 year upgrade to lance, 6 year 4 month to captain for a 05 hire.... obviously if SWA somehow gets MORE airplanes than planned that all changes, or if something in the contract changes etc.

 

[T1bubba]

Just questioning your math here. How would 6 be the "median"? The median means there are the same number above and below. From the previous poster's research, assuming it's correct, the absolute shortest time listed is six years, four months.

So a median, taking all of the upgrades into account would be well above seven years.

Where did you get the 5 from? I don't know if that guy's work is correct, but if so, there doesn't seem to be a five year upgrade at Southwest, it looks like it's almost seven years at the earliest, later if you're based in the South.

You're assuming no one switches bases to upgrade faster. Most but not all do, so most people have upgraded at 6 to 6.5 years lately.