Capt. Woerth, (a.k.a. "Pilot God"

Slick

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2002
Posts
60
Total Time
yes
Dateline: Tuesday August 27, 2002

Attorneys for Mesa Air Group subsidiary CCAir will be in court tomorrow seeking an injunction to affirm a binding agreement between the Regional's pilots and the Air Line Pilots Assn. that will allow the pilots to go back to work.

At issue in the hearing before the US District Court for North Carolina is a contract agreement ratified by CCAir's pilots that ALPA President Duane Woerth has refused to sign. More than 70% of the pilots voted in favor of the contract and one of the pilot negotiators, Steven Kalik, is a plaintiff in the action against Woerth.



I don't have a dog in this fight, but how arrogant. Seventy percent of the CCAir pilot base ratified the contract, but Woerth won't sign it!!??!! Has "A.L.P.A." become "D.W.P.A.", (Dwayne Woerth's Pilot Association)??? Please tell me what I'm missing here. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll need to have someone help me understand where I'm wrong. This guy's out of control.
 

climbhappy

ex pat
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
2,159
Total Time
11000
what you're missing ...nothing

I am ex chicken and was there when johhny o first came on....to understand this deal you have to look back....JO wanted a b scale wage for j31 drivers, new upgrades and new hires..not retroactive... inexchange ,he was gonna put (or so he says) jungle jets on the property... our MEC , was run by freebird and gunslinger..(ask to find out who they were) they adamantly opposed this... however, many of the junior pilots, post 1997 hires dates( made up 1/2 of pilot list) wanted it and senior guys ( who weathered 1991 BK) didn't.... It flopped...the whole issue and the reason you posted, I believe, is because its union versus owners like JO. Mesa , MEC chair andy Hughes, has always been in CC corner, because if you win, they win, they always wanted our contract. it was the best...I'm talking min day, cancel pay, sub pay, .... the issue is union vs MGt (JO in this case), if ALPA buckles it goes against the creed. ALPA feels it must always control the tone... you guys (to the best of my knowledge through current CC pilots ) signed a deal pretty close to what they offered...if you held firm, the doors would be shut now.... In my view, ALPA does not serve the special needs of regional pilots nor can it ever...just look at Delta with their quagmire of two of the biggest wholly owned....there has got to be a better way.

somebody needs to form RALPA
 

Slick

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2002
Posts
60
Total Time
yes
And "R.A.L.P.A."'s much easier to pronounce than "D.W.P.A."
 

Cattlepanel

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Posts
10
Total Time
3000
alpO is a joke. The thought of them representing both the majors and their regional(s) is terrible..We are given no leg to stand on. Good luck guys
 

jetdriven

restraint order pending
Joined
Dec 23, 2001
Posts
517
Total Time
6600
seeing as how the biggest airplane you ever flew was a Duchess, I can say you are hardly qualified to judge ALPA. You have no idea. Is there a better alternartive to ALPA?? I cant think of one.
 

ACWild

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Posts
396
Total Time
12000
seeing as how the biggest airplane you ever flew was a Duchess, I can say you are hardly qualified to judge ALPA. You have no idea. Is there a better alternartive to ALPA?? I cant think of one.
This has got to be flame bait, but I just can't hold back. ALPA is purely a money motivated entity that favors only the majors. If you fly for a regional or a national airline, ALPA national will do things in the best interest of the majors.
Just because there currently isn't a better alternative, it doesn't make ALPA any better. I think the Comair pilots are on the right track as far as a solution. They might not have the perfect answer, but they sure are making a good start.
The premise of ALPA is a good one, unfortunately it's not working as it should.
Any regional pilot who thinks ALPA is good should talk to their MEC and get the inside dirt.
As for Capt Woerthless, I remember getting an ASPEN message from him for Eagles last TA which had about 28 concessionary items in it. He said "I would take it if I were you. I think it's the best you can do." Talk about adding insult to injury after ALPA National came up with a 16 year contract with a no strike clause and no negotiated pay raises. Yes, ALPA National, not the EGL MEC. The initials of the individuals who came up with it are J.M. and B.C. for those of you who are interested.
Sorry for the long rant.
Yes, I do have some issues.
 

Sam Adams

Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2002
Posts
21
Total Time
4000+
RALPA

Do you really think RALPA would be any better> I'm all about unions just not ALPA . ( the machine) Just like any thing else money talks and ALPA listens.
 

ACWild

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Posts
396
Total Time
12000
Someone put it best in another post... We shouldn't abandon ALPA, we should fix it. About two years ago, there was a chance of getting one of our regional pilots a seat on the ALPA board, but there weren't enough votes due to internal politics. If every ALPA airline can get an equal position in ALPA national, ALPA would definitely be a different machine. As I've said before, the Comair lawsuit is a great start. It's about time someone stood up to "big brother." If only all the other regionals would follow suit... I personally know of many witnesses and culprits in the atrocities of ALPA.
The ALPA handbook should be changed. No one person should be able to have the power to go against the majority of the pilot group. In this day of computers and the internet, why can't they set up a secure voting system in which the majority of votes determines the outcome of the interests of the pilots?
 
Last edited:

Sam Adams

Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2002
Posts
21
Total Time
4000+
Law Suit

We also filed a law suit at Allegheny against them but time will tell if it is a waist of time or not . Like you said it is a good start and the first step to changing this crap.But it is a very costly process the machine has plenty of cash however the pilot group at allegheny does not. Hope is good for breakfast but lousy for supper!
 

InclusiveScope

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Posts
385
Total Time
11000+
Sam Adams,
When did you guys at ALG file suit against ALPA? Can you give us anymore details? Bravo for standing up to ALPA.

InclusiveScope
 

Sam Adams

Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2002
Posts
21
Total Time
4000+
Law suit

About 3 weeks ago according to our MEC.I will find out all of the details when I go back to work and post them.
 

climbhappy

ex pat
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
2,159
Total Time
11000
ALPA

I want someone to explain how it isn't a huge CONFLICT OF INTEREST to be representing both majors and WO's and/or independents under the same colors.

IT IS LUDICROUS!

Forget that it is aviation, you simply can't represent both sides of a now complex issue that DISCRIMINATES against regional pilots.

Granted, Alpa is the biggest, but as someone said there is teamsters or others, but with a litlle organization, the web, some grassroots effort, RALPA COULD be born!

IF YOUR NOT FOR US, YOUR AGAINST US!
 

ACWild

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Posts
396
Total Time
12000
The conflict of interest is going to exist as long as you have separate groups (regionals, nationals, majors). Fair representation (more seats on the ALPA national board) would help balance the power. Instead of fighting a huge financial monster with a startup union, in which case the major pilots will still have more influence in the outcome, it might be better to act as a cancer from within to kill it while using some of the major boys cash to help finance it.

Good luck to the Allegheny and Comair pilot groups. You guys should do what ALPA does and solicit financial support from other airline pilots as any positive outcome will set a precedent for all.
 

flx757

I gotta have more cowbell
Joined
Mar 6, 2002
Posts
1,356
Total Time
15000
ACWild said:
it might be better to act as a cancer from within to kill it while using some of the major boys cash to help finance it.
What a ridiculous statement!! In typical pilot fashion..we'll just cut off our whole face, not just our nose, out of spite.

I think even the most stauch RJDC supporters would agree that this is not their objective. While they may be taking the drastic measures that they believe are necessary, the objective is to unite. Though management seems to be doing a good job with the divide and conquer whipsaw tactics, I'm sure they would welcome with open arms this "cancer" you are proposing.

But hey, at least you would have killed your "enemy".
 

ACWild

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Posts
396
Total Time
12000
The thing I'm talking about killing is the unfair representation that the majors have over the regionals and nationals, not ALPA itself, although from your perspective, maybe that's just the same. There would be more unity if the major pilots would stop ramming their issues down the little guys throats. ALPA, as it exists now, is a very strong tool that ensures that the little guys stay little and have no say in their futures.
You can accuse management as the cause of all the whipsawing, but if you've ever witnessed how ALPA national works against the little guys, then I can't imagine how you can say that airline management is the only enemy. Sometimes I think ALPA national works for management too.
 

Sleepyhead

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Posts
320
Total Time
lots
Well if you were a furloughed pilot from one of the majors you might see things differently.
I have been on the street since last Oct. Almost a year later and what do I see. The major airlines are still cutting flights and pilots, yet their regional partners are increasing their flying and hiring pilots. They are buying RJs as fast as they can make them. And if you are a furloughed pilot you can't even get an interview with one of the regionals. You guys need to wake up and see the big picture of what is going on in the industry. The major airlines are shifting a large part of their flying to regional carriers for one reason. They can pay the pilots LESS. What APLA is fighting for is job security and your future. Since most of you regional guys hope to go to the majors one day, you should be supporting their efforts or you will not have a job to move up to.
If you want to fight something, fight your own management about hiring the most qualified pilots available, not excluding furloughed pilots just because they are furloughed.
 

ACWild

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Posts
396
Total Time
12000
If you want to fight something, fight your own management about hiring the most qualified pilots available, not excluding furloughed pilots just because they are furloughed.
Ha ha ha. Thanks for the great laugh. Yeah, the majors are known for always hiring the "most qualified pilots available."
As for being furloughed from a major... You're not the only one on the streets. Did you know that there are furloughed regional pilots out there too? Tell them about all the growth they're experiencing.

What APLA is fighting for is job security and your future.
Who's job security are they fighting for? It really depends on the side of the fence your're on.
 

Sleepyhead

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Posts
320
Total Time
lots
I know many regional pilots were furloughed. However, many of them have been recalled and several of the regionals are hiring and expanding their schedules. The big difference is a regional pilot can get an interview and get hired at another regional. The pilots furloughed from the majors don't have that option even though most would be happy to work at a regional.
 

surplus1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Posts
5,649
Total Time
25K+
You are not exactly accurate. My airline is hiring (Comair). It has interviewed and hired furloughed major airline pilots as well as furloughed regional airline pilots.

Are you willing to resign your seniority number? If so, you can be hired.
 

ACWild

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Posts
396
Total Time
12000
Hey Hog,
I'm just curious, not trying to be wise or anything... Have you tried JetBlue. I know they are taking guys with A320 experience. Last I heard, JetBlues classes had many furloughed USAirways pilots.
Also, I know of many airlines hiring right now. They aren't perfect, but they are definitely better than many of the regionals. Those airlines are hiring boatloads of furloughed pilots. North American's newhires are about 90 percent furloughees (USAirways, Emery, Sun Country, etc.).
Are you trying to get in a regional to stay close to home or are you trying to go for any job?
Either way, best of luck.
 
Top