Can you descend below DH or MDA??

[Papps]

Im sure the FAA is very careful how they word that reg. thats where the confusion sets in. They have to word it so that people don't push it and draaaaag that decision out until 50agl without the runway in sight. Thats why the first time you read the reg you think DH is just like MDA

 

[MauleSkinner]

How is it that instrument rated pilots don't know this? :laugh:

...talk about a hole in training.

Because most of us require a semi-traumatic experience before we realize that we need to study things on our own (as opposed to "memorizing" things on our own), rather than just assuming that the instructor will tell us "everything we need to know".

This particular "hole in training" probably goes back through several generations of instructor/student relationships.

Fly safe!

David

btw...in case you're wondering, you ain't been cold until you've sat in a cold airplane for a couple of hours because you didn't know a particular nuance of the heater

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Because most of us require a semi-traumatic experience before we realize that we need to study things on our own (as opposed to "memorizing" things on our own), rather than just assuming that the instructor will tell us "everything we need to know".

This particular "hole in training" probably goes back through several generations of instructor/student relationships.

When I did my instrument training, many of the ILS approaches terminated in a go-around which left me below DH as I executed the missed. How could a student NOT do this during their training.

 

[MauleSkinner]

When I did my instrument training, many of the ILS approaches terminated in a go-around which left me below DH as I executed the missed. How could a student NOT do this during their training.

There's a difference between "doing" something and "knowing" something. We do things and see things all the time that don't necessarily register in our minds. It's entirely possible that a student sees himself at DH, initiates the missed approach, and the next time he looks at the altimeter he's 500 feet above DH and climbing. Never saw the altimeter scoop below DH, never gave it enough thought to realize that it HAD to have happened.

Particularly in a training environment, where we're generally so busy trying to do what we're supposed to that we don't notice what's happening along the way.

Fly safe!

David

 

[pgcfii2002]

My students do the same...arrive at the DH or MDA, go missed and keep descending. I usually have them pad the mins say 50' so they don't bust the ride.

 

[AC560]

btw...in case you're wondering, you ain't been cold until you've sat in a cold airplane for a couple of hours because you didn't know a particular nuance of the heater

Likewise you haven't been hot for the same reasons. I melted the soles on a pair of sneakers thanks to an old janitrol once. Not sure which is better freezing or sweating.

 

[A Squared]

My students do the same...arrive at the DH or MDA, go missed and keep descending. I usually have them pad the mins say 50' so they don't bust the ride.

You haven't read a single word that's been written, have you?

 

[Way2Broke]

You haven't read a single word that's been written, have you?

There is a big difference between the way most examiners give checkrides and how real flying works. I know at least 3 examiners that will bust you for going below DH while doing a missed and all of them have a background strictly in small GA aircraft.

 

[nosehair]

There is a big difference between the way most examiners give checkrides and how real flying works. I know at least 3 examiners that will bust you for going below DH while doing a missed and all of them have a background strictly in small GA aircraft.

Bongo! You got it.

In 99% of the GA training aircraft where almost everyone gets his/her initial IR, you CAN 'touch' the DH while applying pitch and power to 'skim' the DH and proceed mised, which is what a lot of examiners want to see, and it is how it gets ingrained in the system, but then you get into the real world, and see how you have to 'change your interpretation' to 'fit the actual conditions'.

 

[Papps]

I guess thats why the airlines have to give checkrides every 6 months and line checks every year. If they don't everyone with "change their interpretation" to " fit the actual conditions" thats what i loved about instructing. everyone just made stuff up and pawned it off as standard.

 

[regionalcap]

Here is some reading material. The last part labeled "DH Dilema" discusses this situation.

http://www.terps.com/ifrr/jul95.pdf

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Here is some reading material. The last part labeled "DH Dilema" discusses this situation.

http://www.terps.com/ifrr/jul95.pdf

Good reference. I pasted the pertinent section below.

DH dilemma
When descending on an electronic glideslope to DH, the FAR simply says that approach cannot be continued below DH unless one or more of the runway-specific visual cues (or ALS) is sighted. Most single-pilot operators view this as looking up from the panel at DH and making the decision to either continue visually or miss the approach. While this is certainly practical, it isn’t what the “head-shed” has in mind. The subject is sorely lacking in FAA directives for general aviation, but it’s covered quite well in FAA directives to air carrier inspectors. The visual assessment must be completed not later than DH. The aircraft is permitted to descend through DH without the required visual cues, but only to the extent required to transition to the missed approach climb. Granted, it’s an honor system for the single-pilot operator!​

 

[DrewBlows]

This may be the first time I have ever heard anyone other than an instrument student get 91.175 wrong (seriously). It's really not that difficult. DA and MDA are not the same thing.

If you don't want to go below DA on a missed approach, don't, but please don't teach anyone else the FAA forbids it.

 

[Fedora]

I've had to descend below DH/MDA every time I've landed.

 

[Daveman]

ok.... alot there. You can't go below MDA and you cant continue the approach below DH. Your not continuing the approach your going missed.

You will go below DH 100% of the time unless you have a JATO bottle. If you want to go missed 50 early to stay above DH than go ahead they will bust you on your type ride because you couldent fly the profile.

Why can't the regs be written this way?:beer: