Can you descend below DH or MDA??

[nosehair]

You will go below DH 100% of the time unless you have a JATO bottle.

No, you won't, Papps.

The correct answer here is, "It depends."

It depends on the type of equipment you are flying.

Little Cessna 172's can make an immediate transition from a descent to a climb with no readable descent below the DH. It is done every day in training, and most examiners will expect this type of pilot skill and response. in this type of airplane.

The airplane can do it. So the pilot should be able to do it in his demonstration of executing a timely missed approach.

Moving on to larger equipment, the big machines will take a little time to change direction of motion, and the amount of descent below DH that the examiner allows is dependent on his knowledge of the machine, and his observation of the moment of the pilots control inputs to execute the missed.

So..."it depends."

 

[Lead Sled]

yeah this one has confused people forever. If your in jet doing 140 knots on final and 700-800 fpm to hold glide slope. The pilot not flying will call "minimums no runway" right at DH. In the rj you will say hit the TOGA button push the levers up and say "go around go around thrust flaps 8" and pitch up to the Flight director. The plane will be below DH by the time you start uphill again. And no check airman on earth will fail you for that.

Good discussion that never hurts to be rehashed. You may even touch down on the runway on the runway if you're flying a Cat III missed approach.

LS

 

[JAFI]

You may even touch down ... on the runway if you're flying a Cat III missed approach.

LS

Lead, Good point!

I would like to add: With the appropriate aircraft (read large/long), appropriate runway (CAT III certified), approved procedures, and approved training program. (small print at the bottom of the screen" "Trained Professionals used in this ad, don't try this with out one".)

With the right conditions (low, solid overcast) in the right aircraft (DC 10, 747, etc.) the pilot can decide at DH to conduct a missed approach, have the wheels touch the runway, and go missed approach with out ever seeing the runway. Legal and safe under the above conditions.

DH - The height you make a decision.

MDA - The MINIMUM Descent Altitude.


JAFI

 

[A Squared]

DH - The height you make a decision.

MDA - The MINIMUM Descent Altitude.


JAFI

And there it is in a nutshell, folks.

Isn't it amazing that something that simple and obvious still is misunderstood by folks who should know better?

 

[Lead Sled]

And there it is in a nutshell, folks.

Isn't it amazing that something that simple and obvious still is misunderstood by folks who should know better?

Think "trampoline" not concrete floor.

LS

 

[imacdog]

No, you won't, Papps.

The correct answer here is, "It depends."

It depends on the type of equipment you are flying.

Little Cessna 172's can make an immediate transition from a descent to a climb with no readable descent below the DH. It is done every day in training, and most examiners will expect this type of pilot skill and response. in this type of airplane.

The airplane can do it. So the pilot should be able to do it in his demonstration of executing a timely missed approach.

Moving on to larger equipment, the big machines will take a little time to change direction of motion, and the amount of descent below DH that the examiner allows is dependent on his knowledge of the machine, and his observation of the moment of the pilots control inputs to execute the missed.

So..."it depends."

I disagree. The regs state nothing about "little planes shouldn't go below DH during the execution of a missed, but big airplanes can." DH is just that - a place where you decide to go missed or continue the approach. If you start the missed approach at DH in a 172 and go below DH while transitioning to a climb, then that is fine. DH is not MDA.

 

[Papps]

It doesn't depend. It is what it is.

 

[nosehair]

If you start the missed approach at DH in a 172 and go below DH while transitioning to a climb, then that is fine. DH is not MDA.

Guys, the point I am trying to make is, if you are in a 172, and you let the wheels drag the runway during your missed approach, or go down an appreciable amount, like you could in a Cat III in a heavy jet, I don't think an examiner will allow that on a checkride, or an inspector would agree that you can take as long as you want to, to "effect a pitch and power change that would result in a timely transition to a climb."

We are talking about timely control inputs. If you make the same pitch and power change at DH, the 172 will perk up and fly up within 20 feet, the heavier it is the longer it goes down before changing when the control inputs are the same. That is what we mean about "it depends".

 

[GogglesPisano]

Not to split hairs, but a C172 would be using a DA (unless, of course, it has an RA installed and was shooting a CAT III.)

 

[Papps]

Guys, the point I am trying to make is, if you are in a 172, and you let the wheels drag the runway during your missed approach, or go down an appreciable amount, like you could in a Cat III in a heavy jet, I don't think an examiner will allow that on a checkride, or an inspector would agree that you can take as long as you want to, to "effect a pitch and power change that would result in a timely transition to a climb."

We are talking about timely control inputs. If you make the same pitch and power change at DH, the 172 will perk up and fly up within 20 feet, the heavier it is the longer it goes down before changing when the control inputs are the same. That is what we mean about "it depends".

I guess what im saying is that you don't understand the theory behind DH/DA. Just because a 172 weights nothing, and will get up and go before its caveman era altimeter registers a descent below DH doesn't mean you understand what DH is.

And if you let the wheels drag the runway on the missed in a 172 you either didn't make a decision at DH, or that decision took you 5 minutes to make.

Your right, this is more of a big plane deal, but unless you want to spend your entire career in the C-172 you will want to learn what DH is and isn't