Can you appeal an FAA failed checkride??

[Joe Jet Pilot]

PS Joe Jet, put some **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** clothes on you fat bastard.

Problem Solved!

Ace,

The simple fact is, if you try to fight this you will loose. It might go something like this. You call the FSDO to complain, FSDO calls the DE, the DE says he failed you based on the fact that you did not have a clue about STC's. No matter what happens, you will have to do the checkride over. The FSDO is not going to just give you a certificate based on the examiner asking what you feel is an unfair question. If challenged on this the examiner is going to say that you did not have the knowledge of STC's.

Suck it up, pass your recheck and move on. A pink slip is not the end of the world.

 

[A Squared]

I don't think you're going to get very far with an appeal.

If you had witnesses who could testify that you answered every question perfectly except the question about the proper temperature for brewing belgian style barley wine, you might have a case.

The question about the STC? He could claim that it was a question about airworthiness ... a bit of a stretch, yes, and I agree that it's a little much for a commercial checkride, but it *was* a question about airworthiness.

Questions about unfeathering accumulators? That's systems, fair game. Out of curiosity, what did he ask?

Did you get hosed? possibly, I wasn't there, but from what you've said, I don't think that you have much to show as grounds for an appeal.

Once you have you certificate in hand, and you're sure that you'll never have another checkride form this individual, you might file a formal complaint. It won't do anything for you, but if the FAA gets enough complaints about an examiner, they *might* do something about it.

Sorry

 

[T-Gates]

1 failed checkride is not going to cost you a job in the future. Learn from the experience and move on. I failed my Commercial ME on the oral portion. He gave me 1 shot on a performance problem and failed me. I was extremely pissed, but kept my anger to myself. When he showed up the second time, I nailed his question and the flight and I passed.

In the future, when interviewers ask about the checkride, tell them what you learned and that is it. Many people fail atleast one checkride in thier careers. Sh!t happens.

 

[A Squared]

Re: Stupid Examiner Questions

Who's going to cut down a wing simply to fit an airplane in a hangar? [/B]

Well, since you ask, Northern Air Cargo Has an STC for trimming a few inches off the wings of their DC-6's for precisely that reason.

 

[Standby 1]

Don't feel too bad....we just had an examiner (one we'd never used before) fail a CMEL add-on applicant with the question: "What are the 9 ways to tell if you gear is down?"

 

[Traumahawk]

I don't think it's that unreasonable of a question....
On my CFI ride the guy used the example of someone wanting to plant the McDonalds Golden Arches on top of his plane. Whatever the ridiculous example(which is a lot more interesting than saying..uh...I want to make my flaps 40 degrees instead of 30...)it was meant to see if I knew about STC's.

Ace, I give you the benefit of the doubt. And I have heard horror stories about ridiculous questions asked of people....

BUT, for the most part, this sounds like the straw that broke the camel's back. Students will always come back and say so and so failed me because I lost 11 degrees during my stalls....
The real story is usually, no, you spun to the left once, the right twice, and after 3 strikes you're out.

I'm not saying this is your scenario, but as genuinly crappy as your experience may have been, you're up against that norm of the situation. Take everyone's advice, deal with it. And whatever you do, don't be bitter about it when asked about it.

And if this truly was the case w/ the DPE, what goes around comes around!

Take er easy....
T-hawk

 

[JJJ]

I had a failed check ride. In 5 interview and job offers I've been asked about it ZERO times.

 

[Northern Lights]

I busted my comm/multi flight. Got low and slow when he failed the engine in the pattern. Anyway I pass the next day with no problems, and it has never been a problem since. On applications I just write what happened and have never been asked about it.

As far as the STC stuff. I think that it was a dumb, perhaps oversized question to begin with ---"What do you have to do...?"
Well you have to do a lot of stuff. I would start with the mechanic, and then when I needed to deal with the FAA I would call the FSDO and make sure I did everything right!

Like the others said, though, it's usually several things that lead up to the bust, although they can give you a pink slip for one wrong answer.

A friend of mine went up for a CFI check, and the examiner pulled out a pink and said asked if he knew what it was. My buddy said yes, and thought that he had failed, but had not. The examiner wanted to know what the instructor would do if his student was issued one.

Anyway... It's just a big game, and it doesn't always seem fair.

Good luck

 

[EOpilot]

Two failed checkrides here. I was asked about them at my ACA interview, but they hired me anyway.

By the way, I probably should have contested the one. Due to a misinterpretation of the regs on my part, and my misguided trust in my completely incompetent CFI, I didn't have the appropriate endorsement and X-C time for a Multi add on to my Comm. He walked in, looked at my logbook, and ten minutes later, without a question asked, I had a pink slip in my hand.

I just took responsibility for my own actions and moved on.

 

[dmspilot00]

I didn't have the appropriate endorsement and X-C time for a Multi add on to my Comm.

You shouldn't have needed X-C time. You shouldn't have needed any time at all for an add-on class rating.

See 61.63(c).

 

[350DRIVER]

I think you are out of luck. You could appeal this but the problem is that you are going to have an uphill battle that most likely will just be a waste of time. One bust should not hold you back as long as you can justify it down the line during some interview if you are asked. The FAA can find any reason to bust you and not much you can do about it, just "accept" it and move on. I was one of the few in my class that passed the ride first time around and it was comical to hear the reasons that the FAA busted the others on, luck does have something to do with it. Funny thing is that everyone else passed on the second time around without a problem. The further you advance in your flying career the more difficult it will become to pass on the "first" time around.

good luck

3 5 0

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I just remembered this story.

A student going for his Private, busts because there was no record of a VOR check in the 152 he was flying.

 

[JediNein]

Checkride Re-Take, Oh My!

Go for it. The only way the FAA knows of bad egg examiners is when the applicants speak up.

From the Designated Examiner's Handbook, any applicant may request a checkride re-take from the FAA for any reason. The FAA is obligated to give you a re-take. It will be a full checkride, Oral and Flight. There will not be any credit given for any successfully completed tasks from the DPE. If you pass, the failure is wiped from your record. If you fail, well, the FAA confirmed the failure by the DPE. I do not know if that counts as two failures or not.

It is possible to re-take an FAA checkride, even a "709" ride, under the "that guy was being mean to me" clause. Use different wordings of course, but know that both you and the inspector giving you the ride are thinking the same thing.

Expect the first question out of the Inspector's mouth when you ask for a re-take is, "Does this person have a history of mental problems?" Assume that the Inspector will think you are nuking futs and prepare accordingly.

Expect the meanest SOB in the FSDO to be assigned to give you the re-ride. If you are 11 degrees off on heading during a maneuver and the standards are 10 degrees, you will fail.

Believe me, you will know a h*ck of a lot more by appealing the failure than just walking away.

A good way to approach this is to call up your local Safety Program Manager and ask for advice. They love giving advice. Tell this person the whole story and ask what you should do. They're Safety, unless there is an imminent threat to life and limb, they can not do anything enforcement- or certificate-wise. But they can tell you which Inspector to discuss your situation with and what to have with you when that occurs.

Sleep on it. Talk with your instructor in the morning. And call the FAA when you are done with the CFI. You don't want to wait for months then have to re-train for the checkride. You may even be able to take the re-ride with a "I want to get the checkride over with, then I will consider a complaint against the examiner."

I know of someone that wrote a textbook, almost, while asking for a checkride re-take and got it granted. I know of another fellow that called up his Fed, said his checkride bust was bullhockey and got the re-ride the next day. Both persons passed their re-ride easily.

Good luck!
Jedi Nein

 

[Ace757]

After I told him that the aircraft was not airworthey without the supplemental type certificate, he got me on the you have to buy the rights to use it from the original person who came up with the idea. I answered the main question dealing with safety and airwortheness, the 2nd one was to bust my balls. I told him I would call the FAA and ask. He said they were closed. Then I said I will wait for them to open, and he said you called and they dont know the answer, and then I questioned him about the FAA not knowing about it since they issued the original STC. And your right, thats not the only reason why I failed. that feather acumulator had a lot to do with it to, even though I read line by line in the POH to try to prove my point. We did spend about 30 minutes on the STC question, and 15 on the feather acumulator, I tried telling him that I didnt know, and if we could move on but he wouldnt hear anything of it. But for the information I had I gave pretty good answers.

Thanks for all the advice though. It looks like I would be fighting a loosing battle

 

[JediNein]

What loosing battle?

You ask the FAA for a checkride retake, they MUST give you one.

Period.

No arguments.

What you do have to do is consider the costs. How much will it cost you financially and emotionally to take a re-take with the FAA? How much will it cost you financially and emotionally if you take an unfair failure? How much will you gain if you shut up and put up? How much will you gain if you fight it?

If you accept the failure, then walk away completely and accept the fact that you didn't meet standards and need more training. No complaining. Take your retraining and pass. When the Interview Boards ask you about the checkride failures, answer honestly that you were unprepared for the ride, got more training, and passed it. Don't breathe a word about unfair, invalid, or not my fault.

Make your decision knowing the true costs and benefits. Only you can make that decision.

Good luck!
Jedi Nein