Can I get an A&P?

[Check Essential]

Is it at all possible to get an A&P when you have a full time job? I don’t have any formal practical experience working on a/c, so I can’t go that route.

I’d like to have my A&P because I’d like to build an a/c one day and I think the formal training would be beneficial. Plus, I’d like to be able to do my own maintenance if I were ever to buy a factory built a/c.

TIA.

CE

 

[USMCmech]

Is it at all possible to get an A&P when you have a full time job? I don’t have any formal practical experience working on a/c, so I can’t go that route.

I’d like to have my A&P because I’d like to build an a/c one day and I think the formal training would be beneficial. Plus, I’d like to be able to do my own maintenance if I were ever to buy a factory built a/c.

In order to test for your A&P you must have 30 months of full time experiance working in an aircraft maintence facility.

Or you can attend a school that is certified by the FAA. The school I went to lasted for 14 months. Most community colleges that offer these courses last 2 years of part time classes. It is possible to do this with night classes, but not easy.


If you plan on building a kit, you don't need your A&P. Most quality kits require only basic aircraft knowledge. The rest is learned as you go. Vans RV kits are very good, and if you check out their website you can probably find a builder near you. I helped a freind build one before I got my A&P. We both learned a lot along the way. Seminars and builder assistance courses are offered at several locations.

If you get a "normal" aircraft, you as the owner can still do a lot of the maintence and about half of an annual inspection. Check out FAR 43 appendix C for what is considered "preventative maintence" that can be done by the owner.

 

[avbug]

If you want to go to school to obtain your mechanic certificate, you'll need to move to a location where you can train, but most schools are full time. The short answer is yes, you can...depending on how badly you want to obtain your certification. I've worked two full time jobs for a good share of my life, so yes you can work full time and study full time or do another endevor full time.

The question you need to ask is if you want to.

If you're doing it for fun or to work on an airplane that you "might" get one day, then you're a very dedicated person when it comes to fun.

I won't deny that maintenence experience is a good thing when it comes to building an airplane, but the truth is that most people who construct homebuilt experimental aircraft are not certificated mechanics...many produce some darn fine workmanship. It's often a learn as you go, or learn in stages affair. You can generally plan on several years of getting through your project anyway, and when you're done, you can apply for a FAA Repairman certificate. This will allow you to work on that particular airplane only, but if that's all you want your certification for, you're golden.

Bear in mind that graduating from an A&P school isn't going to make you into a mechanic. It makes you into a student with a piece of paper (or today, plastic), and no experience. Further, the work you do in school is limited; it's a sampling to give you an overview. Learning to be a mechanic is done day to day on the job.

So far as obtaining your certification by experience, this requires 18 months for either the powerplant rating or the airframe rating. You may have 30 months of practical experience as a mechanic on aircraft, if you want to apply to test for both ratings. The FAA has determined that this experience should be full time employment performing aircraft maintenance, related to the rating for which you choose to apply.


---looks like we posted at the same time...

 

[USMCmech]

---looks like we posted at the same time...

I noticed,

AVBUG, do you hav your A&P? I looked at your profile, and didn't see it.



For the record, the A&P liscense is just like any other. It is a liscense to learn. I just got mine recently, but have been working on aircraft military and civilian for years.

If I were given the choice between a homebuilder or a brand new A&P, I would chose the homebuilder every time.

If you really want to learn about aircraft maintence, build a RV or similar kit. You will get much more hands on experiance, and durring the building process, you will have to make several design decisions. While educating yourself about these choices, you will learn much more than you would in A&P school.

I was somewhat disapointed with the school I went to. They only taught the basics and what would be on the test. Most of my classmates had no aviation background. We never even started an piston engine. I wouldn't trust most of them to work on my car, much less my airplane.

 

[Check Essential]

Thanks for the responses. It is an RV8 I’d like to one day build. I didn’t realize the “formal” training for an A&P was so cursory.

I know that most first time builders do not have a background in aircraft maintenabcne, but I thought it would be beneficial. Thanks for your perspective.

CE

 

[avbug]

Yes, I do have a mechanic certificate, with both airframe and powerplant ratings. And experience as an inspector, in repair stations, under certificate operations, line and field maintenance, and twice as DoM. And a boatload of boxes, tools, and shadowing to go along with it.

Some schools are good, others are not. However, I wouldn't say that training is "cursory." Accelerated programs take over a year of full time study to complete and some programs take two years. My practical oral exam was eight hours, and for hands on, I shot rivets, performed paperwork research, inspected an airframe, timed mags, balanced a propeller, and a host of other requirements assigned by the examiner. I didn't go to school; I had ten years of experience before taking the tests, and spent a year preparing on my own before testing. Perhaps not necessary, but I've always taken it very seriously.

When I submitted my documentation to the FAA for approval to take the written tests, I was told they'd never seen that level of documentation. It probably wasn't necessary. They were impressed (which should always be the goal), but said that most often folks show up with a note scrawled by an A&P attesting to the work experience. I had a full report with documentation on letterhead from every employer for whom I'd worked, as well as each mechanic, and a listing of each operation I'd done right down to the N number of the aircraft, over the years. It was bound with a table of contents and a cover and a title page. I approached my preparation for the tests themselves in the same way.

Of course, you can get someone to vouch for your experience and then go to Bakers or Kings or wherever, and spend your six hundred bucks...come away with the certificate. Making an actual mechanic, however, takes a lot longer. It's a lifetime project. The scope of responsibility and the material one must know, and the skills one must attain, are far more reaching and in depth than what is involved in obtaining a pilot certificate. You're taking on a whole lot more to become a mechanic.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that a homebuilder is better than a mechanic or a graduate from a training school, however. Some homebuilders do some mighty fine work. A lot do average work, and some do less than that. However, in each case, the individuals experience, scope and ability rests with the project at hand. A certificated aircraft mechanic must have a very wide scope of ability and a good general understanding of proper practices. No requirement exists in the experimental world to uphold standard practices, and one who has built an airplane can no more be relied upon to know or follow standard practices and good maintenance than someone with no experience at all.

If you are genuinely interested in maintenance, then I encourage you to go to a school. I learned in the school of hard knocks, and got put into environments where we did everything...I mean everything. I wished then that I had the advantage of coming from school. I don't regret the experiences of the past, but there's a lot to be said for good schools. You just need to decide where your priorities are and what it is you want to accomplish.

If you're getting your certificate to go work on your own airplane, bear in mind that coming out of school, you still don't have any real practical experience. A mechanic out of school needs to go to work for a few years to get some good hands on experience, and then is worth something.

If you're interested in a maintenance career, however, most graduates from most schools have no difficulty finding work upon graduation. Many are hired before they complete school,and have a job to walk into as soon as they're done training.

 

[TrafficInSight]

I'm going to a university where an A&P certificate is part of the degree. I'm finished with the part 147 A&P portion and now I'm finishing up the degree courses.

The required A&P courses here are:
basic physics
basic chemistry
1 materials & structures class w/lab and lecture.
3 specialized airframe labs/lectures
3 specialized powerplant labs/lectures
Hydraulics theory
Electrical theory

The airframe/powerplant labs and lectures are covered over 3 semesters and the whole thing can be done in two years. If you don't need the degree you can find a part 147 school and just do the A&P part, if you do want the degree then another couple of years of study can get you that as well. I've had a full time job or several part time jobs the whole time I've been in college... I won't lie and say it hasn't been hard but it has been manageable. I just don't have a lot of free time.

I've also been able to work a couple days a week in a sort of apprentice capacity with one of my professors at a shop that does maintenance for a flight school. As far as practical experience goes I find it very valuable as student pilots really know how to break stuff I've been doing that for a couple of years now.

 

[Flyin Tony]

If you really want to learn about aircraft maintence, build a RV or similar kit

Or buy a 40 yearold plane and have the fuelpumps go out, when you go to put new ones in put a new starter on. After all that pull the seats out just to do it. Then buy a copper battery cable kit and have to pull out the whole inside of your plane. When you get that done take the seats in and side panels and get them redone. Well the inside is out of the plane put in some sound proofing. Put the plane on jacks and put all new gear wiring on. Well the cowling is off put all new push rod seals in. And a few speed mod like putting the brake on the inside so they tuck up into the wheel wells. Wing farings. Pull the panel apart and put in a few new insturments. After all that you should have a new (well kinda) plane

 

[bocefus]

All done under the supervision of a properly certificated and qualified airman of course!!

 

[IndyGTP]

If you're getting your certificate to go work on your own airplane, bear in mind that coming out of school, you still don't have any real practical experience. A mechanic out of school needs to go to work for a few years to get some good hands on experience, and then is worth something.

If you're interested in a maintenance career, however, most graduates from most schools have no difficulty finding work upon graduation. Many are hired before they complete school,and have a job to walk into as soon as they're done training.

In some cases you are correct about jobs but when you get into a region where there is a high concentrated count of laid off mechanics, you are going to either have to move or hope that you can get hired. Areas such as Tampa, Pittsburgh, Charlotte (US Airways), Chicago, Indianapolis, Oakland, San Francisco (All United), are all areas where it becomes difficult to get a job because of the 1000's of people laid off. The list goes on: Seatle, St Louis, Detroit, MSP.

Another downfall is the demise of our wages. I have a friend that just got his A&P and took a job at a local FBO in Louisville. Well he called me up and said that they were hurting bad for help. Guess how much they paid? $10 an hour!!! You have got to be kidding me... I wouldn't work for anything less then $17/hr. And still I think that's far from good pay.

If you want the experience and are willing to work for peanuts for a few years then I would say go for it. If you want an A&P just for your own leisure and just to say you have one then you could do that too. But don't make the same mistake I did and go into this field thinking you will make tons of money.