Call for Release

[goose32]

What is the definition of that? I've been to airports that allow me to give them an estimated wheels up time and they then call and come back with either a" no delay", say to expect my given estimated wheels up time, or say a there's a delay and give an actual wheels up time. all this before even leaving the gate. then there are others that say call 5min prior to taxi and when you let them know you are 5 prior they call and get a time.
I ask all this because I just went to an airport where the controller refused to call for a time until we actually were taxiing even though we gave him and could have met our estimated wheels up which we notified him of 30 minutes prior. When he finally called we got a delay and had to sit for 25 minutes. So what does "call for release" really mean? Thank you.

 

[damnflyboy]

Yes! I would love to know this.

 

[Flyin2low]

Welcome to OAJ and the wrath of ILM app.

 

[goose32]

I didn't have this isue at OAJ

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Can you give an example of origin and destination. Your obviously not talking about EDCT's so more then likely you are encountering an ESP release which is En-trail Spacing. At ORD we get this alot for MSP filed north, Detroit, and then into the New York airports. We don't coordinate a release until you are taxing because we have to call flow control at the center and get the wheels up time and they usually want to know how soon you can be ready. Usually they are only a couple of minute delays but I've seem some on the lengthier side. The over all goal is to find a gap in the overhead stream on more of the congested routes.

 

[goose32]

MOB-ATL. Yeah, not talking about EDCTs. Seems most other locations going into ATL allow us to give them an estimated wheels up time and they simply call to get a time with that. I am curious why MOB refused to and what the procedure is if any. Thanks

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

I would guess we are talking about an ESP like I listed before. Due to the proximity of ATL from Mobile I would guess it is because there is a lot less wiggle room on such a quick flight. Perhaps why maybe they wouldn't call for the release time knowing that the center wouldn't lock down a time until they knew you could hit it because of other flights coming off of lets say Huntsville etc.. etc.. We never call and get releases until the aircraft is taxiing but some other airports maybe different. Like I said I would anticipate the cause being strictly the lack of airspace to deal with to get you on your route and in the overhead stream. The closer you are the more planes there are to factor in, the further out you are the more flexible the time may be.

 

[glasspilot]

The closer you are the more planes there are to factor in, the further out you are the more flexible the time may be.

I get further away equals more flexibility. But "the closer you are the more planes there are to factor in" I must disagree with. If you draw a smaller circle between departure and destination then there are obviously fewer planes in that smaller circle...not more.

The only issue I could see would be that of time and finding a gap. TEC should help on the shortest of the short city pairs to help find that gap.

To the OP: did you put "request TEC" in the remarks?

 

[goose32]

I would guess we are talking about an ESP like I listed before. Due to the proximity of ATL from Mobile I would guess it is because there is a lot less wiggle room on such a quick flight. Perhaps why maybe they wouldn't call for the release time knowing that the center wouldn't lock down a time until they knew you could hit it because of other flights coming off of lets say Huntsville etc.. etc.. We never call and get releases until the aircraft is taxiing but some other airports maybe different. Like I said I would anticipate the cause being strictly the lack of airspace to deal with to get you on your route and in the overhead stream. The closer you are the more planes there are to factor in, the further out you are the more flexible the time may be.

I have had airports as close or closer to ATL just take an estimated wheels time. I understand what you're saying, but does the decision to wait or get an expected wheels up from the crew up to the discretion of the controller? I would think if the crew gave a time and couldn't meet it, that it would be their fault and they'd have to deal with any further delay. That being said, why would a controller care if they don't make the time? He/she isn't the one sitting with the added delay if any, so why not call with what the crew gives as an EWU every time?

 

[goose32]

I get further away equals more flexibility. But "the closer you are the more planes there are to factor in" I must disagree with. If you draw a smaller circle between departure and destination then there are obviously fewer planes in that smaller circle...not more.

The only issue I could see would be that of time and finding a gap. TEC should help on the shortest of the short city pairs to help find that gap.

To the OP: did you put "request TEC" in the remarks?

what's a TEC?

 

[glasspilot]

Tower Enroute Control. It keeps you out of centers airspace so it's a big level of airspace you don't need a "gap" for.

You have to file at 10K or below but you can get off the ground sooner many times and have much more direct routing. I use it a bunch in the NY area and out west too occasionally.

 

[goose32]

Tower Enroute Control. It keeps you out of centers airspace so it's a big level of airspace you don't need a "gap" for.

You have to file at 10K or below but you can get off the ground sooner many times and have much more direct routing. I use it a bunch in the NY area and out west too occasionally.

This was a part 121 operated flight, so I did not file the fp. Good to know though. At a nearby airport where filed is 10k or less I might be able to request it with clearance delivery.

 

[SSDD]

Sorry to pick on you, but this is a problem I see with pilots today...a part 121 captain who's never heard of TEC. You've obviously passed all the checkrides, but that quick ride to the top leaves a lot of gaps in the knowledge base.

 

[goose32]

Sorry to pick on you, but this is a problem I see with pilots today...a part 121 captain who's never heard of TEC. You've obviously passed all the checkrides, but that quick ride to the top leaves a lot of gaps in the knowledge base.

I've heard of it, but it was a long time ago. I don't claim to remember everything I have ever learned. I'm pretty sure I can't do a simple trigonometry problem today even though I made a B in high school Trig. Like most people, if it's not something I use daily or at least every once in a while I probably won't remember it too well. That's not to say a quick refresher won't spark my memory. I do understand your point and concern though.

So, I still haven't gotten an answer to the question. Is it up to a controller's discretion to wait for taxi and call for a release or go with an estimated wheels up?

 

[DLconnection]

I will try and explain this as simple as I can.
First off, these programs are designed to mitigate delays and congestion in the two places that they can happen. Either Enroute or actually at the airports themselves.
The airports themselves will generate whats called ground delay programs or EDCTs. These are those times that usually given to u during your clearance if a program was alreaaalready in effect. These times are funneled through the command center and will either be a +/- 5 program or a time with a call for release 15 min prior to that time.

Then there is the standard Call for Release programs that affect aircraft within a cetain radius of busy airports or airspace. We have several "static " release Airports that never change like ATL IAD ORD etc. Sometimes we'll get releases for airports that due to wx or other reasons require a call for release. To pilots. ...we have to call when u taxi or have a firm idea as to when we can get u airborne. We are hitting an airborne time ie when u tag up on radar, time for the center. We have a window of only a.min or.2 thus the reason for being exact.

One other thing ... in the summer months or during thunderstorm season. The center(s) that are impacted by weather to where certain routes are cuttoff will generate EDCTs that are almost always +/- 5 min. These programs are called AFPs or airspace flow programs. This is why u might sometimes see an EDCT to a small airport like ROA RDU or OMA