CAL vs. DAL

[catIIIc]

And my wife was not having an affair with a CAL pilot... althought I did catch her making out with a young, svelt CMR FO in our LGA lounge.

I am glad you have a sense of humor because my comment was purely in jest.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Pat,

Like I said it's a roll of the dice at either place. As a strong trade/unionist I hope the Delta pilots and every other pilot group negotiates great contracts with significant improvement in all areas. As an CAL ALPA committee volunteer and a proud ALPA member I'll be there when you need assistance from other ALPA members.

FYI I think your characterization of how former CALEXP pilots say CAL is just a bigger CALEXP with different airlplanes is way off base. I have flown with many ex CALEXP pilots and they all say it's a massive upward move from CALEXP. Those who fly with me know they can say whatever they want they in know way feel intiminated to say what I want them to say.

That being said you do bring up some very valid points and I for one am ready to fight hard and do our part to raise the bar not just in compensation but all areas of our terrible contract.

Fraternally,

Jayson Baron

 

[Pat Fabin]

Jayson,

Stop being coherent and reasonable....this is flightinfo!

Happy Festivus!
-Pat

 

[CALnTX]

Jayson,

Stop being coherent and reasonable....this is flightinfo!

Happy Festivus!
-Pat

Pat

Im Ex CALEX and can tell you CAL is a whole lot better. Don't get me wrong CALEX is great but there is no comparison

Felix Navidad

 

[Captain Overs]

Since you know so much about the "old" CAL I figured I would let you in on what our customers think of us now.

Best Airline for Flights to Western Europe
Executive Travel Magazine's 2004 Best in Executive Travel Awards (September 2004)
Best Airline for Flights to Mexico
Executive Travel Magazine's 2004 Best in Executive Travel Awards (September 2004)
2005 Best Airline Alliance – SkyTeam
Global Traveler Magazine
No. 1 U.S.-based Airline
Nikkei Business Magazine survey (December 2003)
Best Transatlantic Airline
2001 OAG Airline of the Year Awards (February 2001)
Top International Airline
National Airline Quality Rating Study (April 2000)
Best Foreign-flag Carrier to North America
Nikkei Business Magazine survey (December 1999)
Top Airline to North America
Travel Trade Gazette Europa (March 1999)
BusinessFirst Premium Cabin

Best Executive/Business Class
OAG Airline of the Year Awards (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006)
World's Leading Business Class Airline and North America's Leading Business Class Airline
2005 World Travel Awards
Best Business Class among U.S. airlines, scoring 23 out of 25 stars for amenities and service
Business Traveler (September 2003)
Best Business Class among U.S. airlines, scoring 23 out of 25 stars for amenities and service
Business Traveler (September 03)
Best Trans-Atlantic and Trans-Pacific Business Class among U.S. airlines
Conde Nast Traveler (October 2002, October 2005)
Best Short Haul Executive/Business Class
2001 OAG Airline of the Year Awards (February 2001)
Best Long Haul Executive/Business Class
2001 OAG Airline of the Year Awards (February 2001)
Best U.S. Airline for Business Travel
SmartMoney (February 2000)
Best Business Class among U.S. airlines; 14 of 16 stars for seats, service, food and entertainment
Wall Street Journal, "Coffee, Tea or Massage" (November 6, 1998)
Workplace, Management & Operations

Airline of the Year
OAG Airline of the Year Awards (2001, 2004, 2005)
Best Airline Based in North America
OAG Airline of the Year Awards (2001, 2004, 2005, 2006)
Best North/South America Airline
Irish Travel Trade Annual Awards (January 2005)
No. 45 Most Admired Global Company
FORTUNE magazine (March 2003)
No. 1 Most Admired Airline
FORTUNE magazine (March 2006)
No. 2 Most Admired U.S. Airline
FORTUNE magazine (March 2004)
No. 2 Most Admired Global Airline
FORTUNE magazine (March 2003, March 2006)
100 Best Companies to Work For
FORTUNE magazine (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Top U.S. Network Carrier
Zagat's 2005 U.S. Airline Survey and 2005 International Airline Survey
Most Opportunities for Hispanics
Hispanic magazine (January/February 2004, January/February 2005)
George Bush Intercontinental Terminal E: "Best Airport Project of 2004"
Texas Construction magazine (December 2004)
Corporate Diversity Honor Roll
Latin Business Magazine (Summer/Fall 2004)
Training Top 100
Training Magazine (February 2004)
Airline of the Year
Air Transport World (1996, 2001)
No. 1 On-time Performance in 2000
U.S. Department of Transportation
No. 1 Best Managed U.S-based Global Airline
Aviation Week & Space Technology (June 2001)
"Best Airline in the U.S."
FORTUNE magazine (December 1999)

Customer Service & Marketing

No. 1 in Customer Satisfaction
Frequent Flyer/J.D. Power & Associates (May 2000), for short
and long distance flights
No. 1 in Customer Satisfaction
Frequent Flyer/J.D. Power & Associates (June 2006), Among Traditional Network Carriers in North America
No. 1 in Customer Service
SmartMoney Customer Service Awards (July 2001)
No. 1 Web site
Forrester PowerRankings (August 2000); NPD New Media
Services for easy navigation and organization of info.
(August 2000); Freddie Awards from InsideFlyer (April 2001)
OnePass: Best Frequent Flyer Program
Laptop Magazine's Editor's Choice Awards (October 2004)
Best Frequent Flyer Program – Domestic
Executive Travel Magazine's 2004 Best in Executive Travel Awards (September 2004)
No. 1 Airline Innovator of Info. Technology and
No. 2 out of 500 companies
InformationWeek 500 List (December 2001)
'Extra Mile' Award for creating an innovative solution for OnePass reward redemption
Budget Travel (October 2005)
Best Frequent Flyer Program - Long Haul
Travelchannel (February 2004)
Best Frequent Flyer Program
OAG Airline of the Year Awards (February 2001)
OnePass
Program of the Year
Best Elite-Level Program*
Best Award
InsideFlyer's Freddie Awards (April 2001)
*InsideFlyer's Freddie Awards (April 2001, April 2002)
Best Ground Services Long Haul
Travelchannel (April 2004)
No. 1 in Customer Loyalty
Brand Keys Survey, NY-based research firm
George Bush Intercontinental Terminal E: Best Airport Project of 2004
Texas Construction magazine (December 2004)
George Bush Intercontinental Terminal E: "Best Airport Restaurant Design"
Airport Revenue News Best Concessions Poll (2005)
Presidents Club – George Bush Intercontinental Terminal E: Priority Pass Lounge of the Year
Priority Pass (2005, 2006)
Liberty International Terminal C
No. 1 New York City-area Airport, Best Gate Experience, Best Concessions
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey customersurvey (2002)
Best Concession Design, Best Customer Service, Best Concessions Management Team, Most Unique Services and Best Overall Concession Program
Airport Revenue News Best Concessions Poll (2005)
Liberty International Terminal C
No. 1 New York City-area Airport
Best Gate Experience
Best Concessions
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey customer survey (2002)
Liberty International Terminal C
Best Concession Program Design
Best Overall Concession Program
Most Unique Services
Airport Revenue News Best Concessions Poll (2004)
Liberty International Terminal C
Best Retail/Specialty Program
Airport Council International-North America (May 2002)
2002 Business in the Arts Award
Business Community for the Arts/Forbes (October 200

You forgot to mention how low employee morale is.

 

[Flechas]

CAL, Delta has no management team!

Ha! Like Cal has a good one... Larry will drive Cal into the ground.

 

[densoo]

Pat

Im Ex CALEX and can tell you CAL is a whole lot better. Don't get me wrong CALEX is great but there is no comparison

Felix Navidad

Who's Felix?

 

[cal73cap]

Uuuhu...our uniform goes back to the 1930's thank you very much.

When making a decision about going to a major you need to look at history, and make LONG-TERM decisions.

CAL has never been one of the desirable carriers to work for...they always had bottom-of-the-barrel wages and working conditions. The ONLY reason they are attractive right now is that the other majors have given so much in concessions and they've been one of the few places hiring. While the upgrade progressions are certainly impressive, they won't last forever. Back in 2000, we had 2 year Captains at DAL...things change.

CAL has never once stood up for themselves and led the industry anywhere...I doubt their track record will be much different come time for Section 6 negotiation.

If you like flying for a pilot group with a large scab contingent...go to CAL.

Absent of payrates, our pilot contract is light-years better than CAL and is probably the best legacy contract out there. I'm sure when it comes time, we'll leap frog CAL and be back near the top of the pax. carrier business. Heck, we took a 33% paycut and STILL paid more than CAL. It wasn't until our BK that we fell below.

As for management, CAL has certainly been able to weather the storms over the last few years very well, and will probably continue to do so. I do, however, believe the new management at DAL to be just as capeable and will do great things with our superior network. Our new long-haul domestic product is better than anyone's out their with dual class leather seats, TVs in every seat, new food and drinks, etc. Our long-haul product with the lie-flat seats is constantly evolving. DAL is truly re-investing in the product. CAL still offers the same old average thing they did in the mid 90s. And whats up with that turkey "sub" thats no bigger than my fist?

CAL has only about 12% heavy aircraft while Delta's fleet is 25% heavy aircraft...2.5 times as many heavy airplanes as CAL. DALs pilot group is currently only about 50% larger than CALs.... bottom line there are far more opportunities to fly heavy aircraft at DAL (and thus better pay and working conditions) than CAL. As Delta's focus points more towards long-haul international, this will certainly tilt the scales more in DAL's favor.

For a junior guy, Delta's fleet is more enjoyable to fly. On the 73NG and MD88 fleet, each plane is identically equipped...no need to switch between the 737-3/5/7/8/9.

Have you seen CALs training center vs. DALs? Pretty self-explanatory there.

Delta's PBS system is far superior to CALs (our PBS guy is always hearing from the CAL rep about how they are unhappy with what they have).

I have many friends that went straight from ExpressJet to CAL and most of them say its an anti-climactic experience.. basically ExpressJet with different airplanes. I guess that says a lot for XJT, but not so much for CAL.

We've fallen pretty far from where we were, but DAL is still a first-rate, very organized, very structured company where people are treated as professionals and people generally do a great job.

These are, of course, my opinions but CAL has always been a 2nd tier major and I don't see anything they've done lately that makes me think any different other than they pay more than us....for now.

Everytime I come out of ATL and say bye to the folks, they all tell me how they are never flying Delta again!

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Who's Felix?

I think he lives with Oscar.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Is this thread for Real???

CAL is going to hire 80 a month in '07. Who know what is going to happen to Delta pilot work rules when, not if, they merge with someone else.

Wake up and smell the coffee.