CAL to furlough

[Superpilot92]

Over it!!

I want to stem possible furloughs. Getting you a raise this time around will be a distant second to that.

You know what I'm going to enjoy? Watching your a$$ get kicked to the curb about the time this job is likely to be getting real good again!! You'll be spouting off about how unfair it is and we'll all just laugh in your face.

Clock is ticking. Save your nickels.

--------

Guys: You see why I've said all along these guys are just like scabs? They are no less replacement worker than a guy who wants to break a strike.

Exactly!!! :uzi:Over 60 Pilots

 

[Bringupthebird]

Flop-
Why do you assume that all the younger pilots are financially well prepared for an early retirement and all the older pilots will be clamoring for more years? My point has been that if you can do something that pays better, do it and leave aviation if you consider it just a job, regardless of your age. Your point, if I read you correctly is that you needed an artificial construct like age60 to continue to give you the option of a left seat whenever you so desire.

The early-outs won't come without a cost. Do you want to allow the company to continue to use the pilots they have trained and release the most junior pilots, or do you want to rob from everyone so as to preserve the status of the most junior pilots in their seats? Wouldn't the noble thing be for you to take an unpaid LOA so that a fellow pilot could avoid furlough or downgrade? There's always someone who thinks you've had it too good for too long and that their success can only come at your expense.

Do you agree with them?

 

[Jonny Sacko]

That is so confused writing, I can't even understand what you are saying.

 

[Flopgut]

Flop-
Why do you assume that all the younger pilots are financially well prepared for an early retirement and all the older pilots will be clamoring for more years? My point has been that if you can do something that pays better, do it and leave aviation if you consider it just a job, regardless of your age. Your point, if I read you correctly is that you needed an artificial construct like age60 to continue to give you the option of a left seat whenever you so desire.

The early-outs won't come without a cost. Do you want to allow the company to continue to use the pilots they have trained and release the most junior pilots, or do you want to rob from everyone so as to preserve the status of the most junior pilots in their seats? Wouldn't the noble thing be for you to take an unpaid LOA so that a fellow pilot could avoid furlough or downgrade? There's always someone who thinks you've had it too good for too long and that their success can only come at your expense.

Do you agree with them?

Well, I feel bad now. I'm perhaps being too cruel to a half wit. I can barely understand what you're trying to say.

CAL does not necessarily want the most senior pilots to stay. (I know this goes against your inflated sense of self. Being that you're perfectly trained beyond what anyone else will be able to match?!) Contract 97 put 12 year FE rates at near 100/hr to try to take care of old guys who wanted the money. When these pilots made the decision to go to the FE seat they no longer needed the sick leave they amassed to pay for bridge medical. So they decided to burn up their sick leave, fast. Age 60+ FEs were completely unreliable employees. We're sitting on the same situation with the age 60+ guys now. When (not if) they all start to burn up sick leave mgt won't be able to staff the airline. There is a proposal for the company to pay these guys their sick bank if they leave at 60. The company sees no value is "allowing them to stay". It's not essential they stay, rather it's more essential they leave.

What I think you fail to see is that so many of us have had to be continuously ready to do something else. The lack of seniority required that. That doesn't mean these pilots are less committed than you! I think the real conclusion here is: You have needed an artificial construct! You can't do anything else (or you're unwilling to) and you've had to artificailly change seniority. You are the liability here. If there was ever an "artificial construct" it's a small increase to a manditory retirement age.

 

[BigMeat]

Flop-
Why do you assume that all the younger pilots are financially well prepared for an early retirement and all the older pilots will be clamoring for more years? My point has been that if you can do something that pays better, do it and leave aviation if you consider it just a job, regardless of your age. Your point, if I read you correctly is that you needed an artificial construct like age60 to continue to give you the option of a left seat whenever you so desire.

The early-outs won't come without a cost. Do you want to allow the company to continue to use the pilots they have trained and release the most junior pilots, or do you want to rob from everyone so as to preserve the status of the most junior pilots in their seats? Wouldn't the noble thing be for you to take an unpaid LOA so that a fellow pilot could avoid furlough or downgrade? There's always someone who thinks you've had it too good for too long and that their success can only come at your expense.

Do you agree with them?

It is just a job. A great one at that. I still cannot wait to have enough money to retire and will do so without haste when I have my chance. Diffrence is that I am planning accordingly. I dont want your crappy left seat. At CAL upgrades go to 80%. I will wait till I have an okay schedule when its my turn. From the sound of it your the type of guy that will take any contract and drives around with ACE PILOT on your license plate. I hope your car gets scratched old man. I hope your kids kick you down the stairs and your cat forgets how to use the litter box!

 

[captbert]

It is just a job. A great one at that. I still cannot wait to have enough money to retire and will do so without haste when I have my chance. Diffrence is that I am planning accordingly. I dont want your crappy left seat. At CAL upgrades go to 80%. I will wait till I have an okay schedule when its my turn. From the sound of it your the type of guy that will take any contract and drives around with ACE PILOT on your license plate. I hope your car gets scratched old man. I hope your kids kick you down the stairs and your cat forgets how to use the litter box!

Its actually 74% for the junior EWR 737 CA.

 

[SuperFLUF]

I love it when you young studs bitch about Age 65.

Sorry, if you think you have a right to my left seat.

You don't.

Get over yourselves.

Gear up!

AND what would you say sir, if all these guys came back?

[FONT=arial,helvetica,geneva]The Fight For Pilots Hurt By New Age 65 Rule[/FONT]

Now that U.S. airline pilots can fly to age 65, litigation is now moving forward to overturn wording in the 2007 law that also specifically barred some 3,000 pilots forced into retirement before age 60 from being rehired with their prior pay, position and benefits. Congress last year passed the Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act that raised the mandatory retirement age for pilots to a more internationally recognized age of 65, but wording in the law excluded some 3,000 veteran pilots forced to retire between November 23, 2006, and December 17, 2007, from being rehired at their previously held seniority levels. George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley has brought a motion to have the U.S. Court of Appeals determine the constitutionality of the congressional law before it can be used to dismiss petitions filed on behalf of those pilots forced into retirement. "That motion allows the court to review the law faster than it would have otherwise," according to a posting to LegalTimes.com blog.


"The law arbitrarily strips pilots of their position, seniority, and benefits at the age of 60," Turley said.


Do you think you have a right to "their" seat?

Pandora's box has been opened. Part of me wants to see this happen just so that those who wanted benefits without concern for the consequences they imposed on others get a dose of the consequences they so condescendingly imposed.

What tune will you be singing if these guys are successful and your extra five years is substantially worse than you planned? Who's seat is it then?

 

[Flopgut]

The early-outs won't come without a cost. Do you want to allow the company to continue to use the pilots they have trained and release the most junior pilots, or do you want to rob from everyone so as to preserve the status of the most junior pilots in their seats?

"Release"? As though these pilots are a surplus fish? You owe them more than that. ALPA has efforted the Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act and the Lost Retirement Savings Act and they are currently working on getting the Akaka portion of the legislation onboard. Add to that: Age 65.

Regarding collective bargaining: CAL pilots voted to protect the A plan (that only the top pilots kept) while, for all practical purposes, bankrupting the bottom half of pilots.

The effort has been heavily weighted toward the older pilots to the detriment of the junior majority. You owe them more than just being released!!

 

[Bringupthebird]

It is just a job. A great one at that. I still cannot wait to have enough money to retire and will do so without haste when I have my chance. Diffrence is that I am planning accordingly. I dont want your crappy left seat. At CAL upgrades go to 80%. I will wait till I have an okay schedule when its my turn. From the sound of it your the type of guy that will take any contract and drives around with ACE PILOT on your license plate. I hope your car gets scratched old man. I hope your kids kick you down the stairs and your cat forgets how to use the litter box!

You shouldn'ta brought my cat into this!!:laugh:

Ever wonder why it such a "great job"? Sure you haven't, but It's because of people who felt is was more than just a job. They're the ones who were unwilling to take "any" contract to supplement their far superior job on the side.

How can you concentrate on your side job with so much anger inside. Oops, there's your manager calling, they need a mop on aisle 4.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Regarding collective bargaining: CAL pilots voted to protect the A plan (that only the top pilots kept) while, for all practical purposes, bankrupting the bottom half of pilots.

The effort has been heavily weighted toward the older pilots to the detriment of the junior majority. You owe them more than just being released!!

Nope, that's how seniority works. I don't agree that 1st year pay is as lousy as it is, but unless you want to trash seniority and replace it with alphabetical or ranking by height, that's the risk that comes with juniority.

Why not offer benefits that accrue with seniority rather than making the job progressively worse so that those at the bottom can feel better. Does Aeroflot use a system like that? Is Hugo Chavez your MEC Chairman?