CAL Pilots Picking up Open Time

[Phrogs4ever]

"Advertised" trip? Is that a trip another pilot is trying to drop?

Yes it is.

 

[Networ-King]

If you want to repair your marriage, spending more time at work isn't the answer. Especially if the spouse craves attention and affection from whomever will give it to her.

Not furloughed and I don't understand. Every single excuse for picking up open time while pilots are on the street is myopic. The salve the people use to make themselves feel better is that "it is legal per the contract." Our union is trying to make a legal stance and unify the pilot group..."fly safe and enjoy your days off!"...but there are those that continually undercut those efforts. By the end of the week we should have detailed openers in the hands of the pilot group and this is one of many issues that will be addressed.

We all need more money, but what you are willing to do to get is speaks to your character. Do not volunteer for VRF if you need the hours. Do not waive credits and safely and comfortably fly your full line. Bid and enjoy all of your vacation. Pick up advertised trips if you "need" to plus up your hours. Opting for the open time pairing vice advertised just because is gives you two more hours or has a better layover is self serving and defeatist. Please, work within the system without losing sight of the big picture.

Great Post.....

Trying to educated morons that justify picking up opentime for whatever reason is moot at best. These wanna be "scabs" will justify it and then try to make others, that have the hole picture, look like idiots for questioning them.

UPS might announce furloughs in January and I am thankful that the IPA finally negotiated "NO OPENTIME FLYING" should a furlough is announced.... PERIOD. This was put in the contract because every company has the dumbsh!ts that can't live within their means and need to whore themselves out..... nevertheless these are the same A$$holes that will always live paycheck to paycheck no matter how much they make. The worse part about these w h o r e s is when you have to sit next to them for a 4 day or a even worse a week long trip, listening to their stupid excuses for being w h o r e s.... mean while you day dream.....eeeerrr.... night dream about stabbing the idiot in the eyeball with the plastic spork from the catering box. Good luck at CAL trying to educate these morons.

Net

 

[densoo]

Take a good look at who is picking up these trips, there are more than a few guys close to the bottom of the list. They are essentially trying to work themselves out of a job.

True. It happens all the time. And where did they get this from? Unfortunately, a good number of them "follow the leader" and many of the captains whom they flew with on probation and now reserve led by example--VJM and open time pickup.

Are there any pilot groups that still monitor this type of thing (open time, selling vacation, voluntary reserve on days off, etc) and then call to "counsel" new pilots in what the normalized behavior is for that group? I know UAL was very successful with this during their 80s strike. I wonder if it still exists there or anywhere.

 

[bluefin]

Management at UAL has the pilot group by the balls. Remember the lawsuit a couple of years ago? If pilots don't pick up open time or accept junior/senior manning on days off it is a "job action" punishable by a huge fine levied by a judge.

 

[Beaver79]

Or just live within your means so you don't have to whore yourself out to make ends meet.

Feeding the kids and taking care of elderly parents with large medical bills......so selfish and living so outside of one's means.....

 

[Flybywire44]

We have pilots on the street but pilots are still picking up open time! Wake Up!
I am a 756 EWR FO... I bid RES for the days off... I have had trips taken away from me by lineholders doing straight pickups... Thanks, I like staying at home... but don't complain about low pay and work rules to me...

Look at the RESERVE AVAILABILITY REPORT for 07 dec EWR 756
A FO on RX days has a line value 104hrs... his PBS awared line value was 77hrs... Pickup of 27hrs... Thanks Rich, I like being home watching Football!
S/F

CAL Sucks!
Waiting for SWA or FedEx

Yeah? The pilot group at CAL sold out the junior pilots in contract negotiations... No insurance for first 6 months and horrible pay. No union takes care of everyone, you can't fault someone for picking up open time. Maybe the guy is barely able to keep his house, having to pay for his parents health bills or dealing with an autistic child. We only have a piece of the big picture.

If your argument is all about increasing the need for more coverage than why not judge everyone who voted in PBS in 2005? PBS dramatically reduced required staffing and increased utilization. As I recall there was a big shake up in ALPA after that contract.

ASA is getting ready to vote in PBS while they have pilots furloughed and captains downgraded. PBS will ensure that those furloughs and downgraded Captains stay right where they are for the coming summer.

Senior ALPA guys have a way of taking care of themselves, don't fault a little FO for doing the same thing... "Rich," unlike you, may really need the money and in the end he is only one of many people picking up open time.

Its always funny to me how pilots hate on the ones who work harder; Those who break the monotony of the flight line with hard work are dehumanized into a lower form of life by the less motivated or more financially comfortable. Without those who pickup open time, you would never be able to stay at home as much as you do.

So I say enjoy your football game and don't hate... it only paints a picture of how unhappy you may really be.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

Feeding the kids and taking care of elderly parents with large medical bills......so selfish and living so outside of one's means.....

We all have our own stories, like the pilot that needs to feed his kids and pay for elderly medical bills WHO IS NOW FURLOUGHED! It boils down to this, YOU can pick up open time so YOU can make a little more money and guarantee that you will always have to do that to pay your bills, or you can work to better the profession so pilots don't have to make extra money at the expense of the group as a whole.

 

[Networ-King]

Yeah? The pilot group at CAL sold out the junior pilots in contract negotiations... No insurance for first 6 months and horrible pay. No union takes care of everyone, you can't fault someone for picking up open time. Maybe the guy is barely able to keep his house, having to pay for his parents health bills or dealing with an autistic child. We only have a piece of the big picture.

If your argument is all about increasing the need for more coverage than why not judge everyone who voted in PBS in 2005? PBS dramatically reduced required staffing and increased utilization. As I recall there was a big shake up in ALPA after that contract.

ASA is getting ready to vote in PBS while they have pilots furloughed and captains downgraded. PBS will ensure that those furloughs and downgraded Captains stay right where they are for the coming summer.

Senior ALPA guys have a way of taking care of themselves, don't fault a little FO for doing the same thing... "Rich," unlike you, may really need the money and in the end he is only one of many people picking up open time.

Its always funny to me how pilots hate on the ones who work harder; Those who break the monotony of the flight line with hard work are dehumanized into a lower form of life by the less motivated or more financially comfortable. Without those who pickup open time, you would never be able to stay at home as much as you do.

So I say enjoy your football game and don't hate... it only paints a picture of how unhappy you may really be.

As I said in my earlier post... It's pilots like this that will justify anything and everything because "they" are the only ones with problems. You sir are the freaking clueless one here, you are the one that doesn't get the big picture. You think you're the only one that has problems with a mortgage, car payment, kids, medical bills etc....? Cry me a f*&king river... guys like you were at Delta and they justified an AVERAGE of 5000 hours of block hours of opentime A MONTH while over 1200 of us sat on furlough for 5 plus years. What about the families with medical problems on the street, what about their mortgages, their car payments, their kid needing diapers and formula...getting a bit of the picture now skippy? I don't know why I waist my time with people like you. You'll keep on being a w h o r e while fellow union members are on the street trying to provide for their family by any means possible, while you pick up opentime and keep them out on the street longer. If you need extra cash then send the wife to get a part time job, do something else on your days off to make money becaue it's ethically WRONG to pick up opentime while your union brothers and sister sit on the street. You and you're kind will never change and that is why I am thankful that the IPA actually put verbage in the contract about no opentime flying should there be a furlough announcement. Finally it won't be against the "law" and the judge can't do a f*&king thing about it. Granted... we have your kind of w h o r e s here as well and should a furlough be announced, I'm sure they'll try to weisel their way into doing "favors" for the company to benefit themselves, but this will be monitored and there will be repercussions.....bet on it.

Justify away.....

Net

 

[NavinRJohnson]

CAL is in negotiations right now. I hope we are putting 'no open time when there are furloughs' in our new contract. What a great way to self police the union. Too bad we are our own enemy.

Everyone has a poor me story about picking up OT. It's all bullsh!t. Grow a pair, tighten your belt and have some moral character and DON'T DO IT...

Navin

 

[Chairman]

CAL is in negotiations right now. I hope we are putting 'no open time when there are furloughs' in our new contract. What a great way to self police the union. Too bad we are our own enemy.

Everyone has a poor me story about picking up OT. It's all bullsh!t. Grow a pair, tighten your belt and have some moral character and DON'T DO IT...

Navin

Exactly, you want to fly extra and pick up open time, or cross the picket line because you have kids to feed then deal with the results of your actions!

 

[Ben Franklin]

The CAL MEC put information out a while back TELLING its pilots that if no one "waived credit hours" in their monthly PBS bid groups that all 147 furloughs would most likely need to be recalled.

Shouldn't this thread be "CAL PILOTS STILL WAIVING TIME IN PBS"?

The union shows no study to directly prove that not picking up open time results in recalls/hiring (keeping this in the realm of debatable gray morals and ethics) ...and we get threads like this one.

The same union puts in writing, one studied and proven way to get pilots back on property... but we still get threads like this one?

Why not a thread on how waiving credit in PBS keeps furloughed pilots on the street?

I haven't waived one single second of time since PBS went "live" and oh yeah, I've picked up 16 hours of open time credit covering 2 trips in the last 11 years.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Flybywire44]

As I said in my earlier post... It's pilots like this that will justify anything and everything because "they" are the only ones with problems. You sir are the freaking clueless one here, you are the one that doesn't get the big picture. You think you're the only one that has problems with a mortgage, car payment, kids, medical bills etc....? Cry me a f*&king river... guys like you were at Delta and they justified an AVERAGE of 5000 hours of block hours of opentime A MONTH while over 1200 of us sat on furlough for 5 plus years. What about the families with medical problems on the street, what about their mortgages, their car payments, their kid needing diapers and formula...getting a bit of the picture now skippy? I don't know why I waist my time with people like you. You'll keep on being a w h o r e while fellow union members are on the street trying to provide for their family by any means possible, while you pick up opentime and keep them out on the street longer. If you need extra cash then send the wife to get a part time job, do something else on your days off to make money becaue it's ethically WRONG to pick up opentime while your union brothers and sister sit on the street. You and you're kind will never change and that is why I am thankful that the IPA actually put verbage in the contract about no opentime flying should there be a furlough announcement. Finally it won't be against the "law" and the judge can't do a f*&king thing about it. Granted... we have your kind of w h o r e s here as well and should a furlough be announced, I'm sure they'll try to weisel their way into doing "favors" for the company to benefit themselves, but this will be monitored and there will be repercussions.....bet on it.

Justify away.....

Net

My point is that there is so much more that went into these furloughs than open time pickups.

You know another solution would be if everyone took a pay cut. Pay concessions would allow the airline afford to bring the guys on the street back. If you want you're furloughs back now than I suggest you call your MEC and push the pay cut for pilot recall issue. CAL's union could authorize pay concessions to subsidize in part or whole the recall of the 147. You'll get the union to volunteer pay cuts before you'll get pilots to stop using open time.

In the end people will do what is best for them; I personally understand the argument against open time pickups, but thanks for the insight.

Open time pickups and furloughs won't plague CAL for much longer.

Happy Holidays?

 

[Chairman]

My point is that there is so much more that went into these furloughs than open time pickups.

You know another solution would be if everyone took a pay cut. Pay concessions would allow the airline afford to bring the guys on the street back. If you want you're furloughs back now than I suggest you call your MEC and push the pay cut for pilot recall issue. CAL's union could authorize pay concessions to subsidize in part or whole the recall of the 147. You'll get the union to volunteer pay cuts before you'll get pilots to stop using open time.

In the end people will do what is best for them; I personally understand the argument against open time pickups, but thanks for the insight.

Open time pickups and furloughs won't plague CAL for much longer.

Happy Holidays?

Funny how most carriers took paycuts even with a no furlough clause and that didn't help after 2001. Ual took pay cuts to save contract 2000 but that didn't work. They even gave up scope to save the pension but the company dumped that too. Lead from the top not the employee's I will stay on the street for as long as it takes but I want to come back to a hell of a lot more than I left!

Chairman

 

[ATRCA]

I suspect that if we did a brief but intense study we would find that pilots are picking up open trips at every single carrier that has pilots on furlough. It's happening at CAL, it happened at my last carrier when we furloughed after 9-11. I don't like it, it's at the very least extremely selfish but in the end, individuals are free to chose for themselves what they want and don't want to fly. Unions are unfortunately hampered when it comes to discouraging or outlawing the practice.

CAL had three decades of hiring the bottom of the barrel. Things have changed in the last 10 or so but like other carriers that had poor performing years they were unable to attract the best pilots on the market. Ask yourself, would you have gone to CAL when they were bankrupt? Would you have gone to CAL in 1987, 1991?

CAL is changing, for the better but there is a legacy that only retirements will cure. I'd be interested to hear from those who have worked at carriers post strike/bankruptcy to hear how their scabs behaved in the years that followed.

Generally, I've noticed that pilots who have been through tough times and survived feel entitled to enrich themselves when their seniority allows. That's what's happening. The most important thing to take away from this is to realize that despite what management has done to the career, pilots have also played an important role in helping destroy the character that our profession used to pride itself on.

WE ARE THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION!

 

[CapnVegetto]

On a lighter note, my friend at CAL told me that the training department has received a memo to expect recalls in January and newhire classes in May. Anybody know of any truth to these rumors?

 

[ATRCA]

On a lighter note, my friend at CAL told me that the training department has received a memo to expect recalls in January and newhire classes in May. Anybody know of any truth to these rumors?

If that were true, it would have been all over Calforums and I haven't seen anything like that or even close. It could be true but I'm thinking it's a bit optimistic.

I really don't think there will be hiring for a very long time. CAL has pilots on furlough and COLA. The two groups represent hundreds of pilots. I don't think CAL will need anything more than a couple hundred for the foreseeable future.

 

[motch]

I really don't think there will be hiring for a very long time. CAL has pilots on furlough and COLA. The two groups represent hundreds of pilots. I don't think CAL will need anything more than a couple hundred for the foreseeable future.

147 pilots on Furlough and 64 pilots took the COLA back in Sept 08. Those 64 pilots will be coming back sometime this Spring, as the COLA ends after 18 months.
How many actually come back? Who knows..

But the reality is, we have 211 pilots out on the street (proably a few more because a handful got COLA's after the fact and also this past time around) but we will need all 211 by Spring of 2011 at the latest.. and probably sooner.

Looking forward to the next bid and hoping that the 147 hostages come back SOON!

Always
motch

 

[CapnVegetto]

Friend also told me that they are calling furloughs and maybe half of them are coming back. I have another buddy on company COLA, he is flying an Excel for a bank, is extremely happy and has no desire to ever go back to CAL just to name one.

 

[ATRCA]

Friend also told me that they are calling furloughs and maybe half of them are coming back. I have another buddy on company COLA, he is flying an Excel for a bank, is extremely happy and has no desire to ever go back to CAL just to name one.

I can confirm that they are NOT calling furloughs. That is simply not true. I'm not sure why these things are said but that is not happening. I speak regularly with several CAL furloughees and none have been contacted by anyone at CAL or CALALPA. There would have to be a bid before recalls can begin and there isn't a bid until sometime in January. Those bid results will not be published until probably February and classes if needed in March.

Your source has a vivid imagination or is only privy to minute and incomplete details.

 

[Citjok]

We have pilots on the street but pilots are still picking up open time! Wake Up!
I am a 756 EWR FO... I bid RES for the days off... I have had trips taken away from me by lineholders doing straight pickups... Thanks, I like staying at home... but don't complain about low pay and work rules to me...

Look at the RESERVE AVAILABILITY REPORT for 07 dec EWR 756
A FO on RX days has a line value 104hrs... his PBS awared line value was 77hrs... Pickup of 27hrs... Thanks Rich, I like being home watching Football!
S/F

CAL Sucks!
Waiting for SWA or FedEx



I have a word for this:


SCUMBAGS!!