CAL MEC considering leaving JCBA

[whatitdoing?]

You heard it here first!!! Seems that it's been discussed....hold on!!!!

 

[Patriot328]

Well now that would be interesting.

 

[whatitdoing?]

It's being discussed this week. I think things have broken down so bad between our MEC's, it's counter productive to stay in JCBA with our United counterparts. It's a real shame if this happens, but I'm fine with being on this side of the fence. United has absolutely NO furlough protection with a management that's eager to park a lot of their planes. If the United side decides to continue their song and dance, figure leave talks, wish em luck.

 

[mishap]

What is your source for this?

 

[eaglesview]

It's being discussed this week. I think things have broken down so bad between our MEC's, it's counter productive to stay in JCBA with our United counterparts. It's a real shame if this happens, but I'm fine with being on this side of the fence. United has absolutely NO furlough protection with a management that's eager to park a lot of their planes. If the United side decides to continue their song and dance, figure leave talks, wish em luck.

Typical CO pilot. " I'm in, pull up the rope." What song and dance are refering to exactly?

 

[Andy]

Typical CO pilot. " I'm in, pull up the rope." What song and dance are refering to exactly?

As a furloughed UAL pilot, I'd definitely pin that generalism on LUAL pilots, not LCAL pilots.
Kravit's rant was an embarrassment to all LUAL pilots. When I first read Kravit's complaints against Pierce, my thought was that UALALPA did a LOUSY job of preparation for the meeting. They went in asking for a bunch of things. When UALALPA got a portion of their list of demands at no cost, Kravit chose to put zero value on what was given to them. I think that most of the pilots on property at the bottom of the list do not put zero value on no furlough and flying ratio protections.
Allow me to put value on those two freebies. $40 million. How do I figure? 400 pilots furloughed with a salary of $100K/yr. There ya go. And OF COURSE someone like Kravit puts no value on those company gives. He's at the top of the seniority list and doesn't gain jacksquat from the last 400 LUAL pilots keeping their jobs.

To all LCAL pilots, my apologies. Kravit is a loose cannon. Unfortunately, there are some brain dead zombies at LUAL who feasted on Kravit's rant like it was a piece of raw meat.

 

[outerlimits]

Typical CO pilot. " I'm in, pull up the rope." What song and dance are refering to exactly?

Not sure how you can say that. Every UAL pilot I talk to feel the CAL is/was a second rate company compared to UAL

I know the feeling.

 

[mishap]

As a furloughed UAL pilot, I'd definitely pin that generalism on LUAL pilots, not LCAL pilots.
Kravit's rant was an embarrassment to all LUAL pilots. When I first read Kravit's complaints against Pierce, my thought was that UALALPA did a LOUSY job of preparation for the meeting. They went in asking for a bunch of things. When UALALPA got a portion of their list of demands at no cost, Kravit chose to put zero value on what was given to them. I think that most of the pilots on property at the bottom of the list do not put zero value on no furlough and flying ratio protections.
Allow me to put value on those two freebies. $40 million. How do I figure? 400 pilots furloughed with a salary of $100K/yr. There ya go. And OF COURSE someone like Kravit puts no value on those company gives. He's at the top of the seniority list and doesn't gain jacksquat from the last 400 LUAL pilots keeping their jobs.

To all LCAL pilots, my apologies. Kravit is a loose cannon. Unfortunately, there are some brain dead zombies at LUAL who feasted on Kravit's rant like it was a piece of raw meat.

Andy, it is nice to hear a reasoned response from you on this. I have stopped going to the joint forum recently because of the rhetoric on there. I fully understand the UAL pilots anger, I just don't like the fact that some seem to be directing it at the CAL pilots. I feel that this is totally counter productive. If we allow the decisions of a few (on both sides) to tarnish the views of the average line pilots than we are doomed. We need to put this bs behind us and stand together to get an industry leading JCBA that brings you back to a lucrative career.

Those that want to fight this out in the court of public opinion are working against the line pilots of UAL and CAL.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

As a furloughed UAL pilot, I'd definitely pin that generalism on LUAL pilots, not LCAL pilots.
Kravit's rant was an embarrassment to all LUAL pilots. When I first read Kravit's complaints against Pierce, my thought was that UALALPA did a LOUSY job of preparation for the meeting. They went in asking for a bunch of things. When UALALPA got a portion of their list of demands at no cost, Kravit chose to put zero value on what was given to them. I think that most of the pilots on property at the bottom of the list do not put zero value on no furlough and flying ratio protections.
Allow me to put value on those two freebies. $40 million. How do I figure? 400 pilots furloughed with a salary of $100K/yr. There ya go. And OF COURSE someone like Kravit puts no value on those company gives. He's at the top of the seniority list and doesn't gain jacksquat from the last 400 LUAL pilots keeping their jobs.

To all LCAL pilots, my apologies. Kravit is a loose cannon. Unfortunately, there are some brain dead zombies at LUAL who feasted on Kravit's rant like it was a piece of raw meat.

Andy reasonable response! But I think the cost is a lot higher. when you add in retirement, bennies, and employee costs, the number will go up quite a bit. Don't forget the money lost with downgrades as well. What about the block protection? L-UAL can be shrunk down and L-CAL could grow. What a setup for a whipsaw. We need to stay unified and get an industry leading JCBA.

 

[Andy]

Andy reasonable response! But I think the cost is a lot higher. when you add in retirement, bennies, and employee costs, the number will go up quite a bit. Don't forget the money lost with downgrades as well. What about the block protection? L-UAL can be shrunk down and L-CAL could grow. What a setup for a whipsaw. We need to stay unified and get an industry leading JCBA.

Bear, I wanted to keep things simple. I could have gone more indepth as far as the benefits to LUAL pilots but that would make my argument more assailable. So I used the KISS method.

A larger part of the problem is that the top of LUAL's seniority list dominates our MEC; they're insulated from the negative effects of their actions on those below them. And quite frankly, their history indicates that most don't care if the bottom of the seniority list is harmed by their actions.
Don't get me wrong; there are many senior pilots at LUAL who care about the entire seniority list. Unfortunately, they're drowned out by a very vocal portion of senior pilots. And there are more than a couple of LUAL pilots who will follow those vocal senior pilots over the cliff like lemmings.
The example that I have to offer up is the issue of longevity. Longevity is in Delta's contract and it was in Northwest's contract. But the UALALPA members that I've corresponded with have been giving me pushback on the subject. But if you talk about retro pay, they're all over that issue. I'm approached being furloughed 8 of 12 years on UAL property. Does my 8 year sacrifice not deserve longevity credit? Take into account that we had a no furlough clause in C2K; settled for longevity credit in ERP2. That longevity credit disappeared in C2003; likely horsetraded away for other benefits for those still on property.