CAL giving up on EWR?

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

CAL pilots will never get what they don't know because they are not unionists. CAL pilots have no understanding of what works. 25 years of fractionating, splicing and beatings have worked.

CAL pilots will do anything management asks and continue to tell themselves nothing will work. They are defeated before they try.

When it comes to the upper 2/3rds of the senority list, you are correct. But if you think that management shrinking Newark has nothing to do with trying to dilute the power of EWR LC 170, you have no clue. This is the one part of CALALPA that is actually trying to change all the problems you just listed above. They are running a very effective educational campaign, and gathering loads of support. They have management running scared, thus this bullcrap bid.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Sticking together and telling management where to go and when often works. UAL has a twice renegoiated contract which is still better in every respect than CAL's. Scheduling, Duty Rigs, Vacation, Training, Reserve, Retirement, Benefits, etc. Every section is better at not only UAL, but also DAL, NWA, AMR, and SWA.

CAL pilots will never get what they don't know because they are not unionists. CAL pilots have no understanding of what works. 25 years of fractionating, splicing and beatings have worked.

CAL pilots will do anything management asks and continue to tell themselves nothing will work. They are defeated before they try.

The entire industry has tanked in terms of work rules, pay, scheduling, and any other litmus you wish to use. I suppose one could say that a Russian coal miner has it better than a Chinese coal miner because they stick together- but it all still stinks. Especially when you look at where this industry was compare to where it is now. Want to blame that on CAL? Go ahead, no question the 147 newhires that are on the street got their just desserts for not being good union people. If we furlough more, outstanding, show those non-unionist a thing or two.

Before you start blaming CAL for all our woes, just remember this; it was DAL - that one with the great contract you mentioned- that could have set the precedent for RJ's flying on the mainline back in the early '90's and didn't do it. Nothing has eroded this industry more than the 50, then 70, now 90, and some day no doubt 100+ seat RJ. It didn't take airline management long to figure out that one could make tons of money having larger and larger airplanes flown by a pilot with little hope for moving up because they are unemployable to the mainline (and therefore not mainline compensated). I will have more on that on a seperate, later post.

That is not to say that everyone flying RJ's right now is unemployable on the mainline, we are all stuck where we are at the moment. For all of our crappy contract, no other airline is towing the line better than us on the RJ issue. Or at least the jet RJ problem.

 

[Super Monkey]

Yeah, but I doubt I will lose my seat here in the IAH......booyah!!

You are one of the most selfish pilots I have ever had the unfortunate circumstance to listen to. Your selfish and one sided banter is not welcome here at CAL. Climb out of your isolated hole in IAH and think about other pilots, their families, and what could and has happened to our brothers and sisters during these troubled times and unwarranted reduction bids.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

CAL brand has more non mainline airframes than mainline aircraft

For all of our crappy contract, no other airline is towing the line better than us on the RJ issue.

Rebuttal: How could CAL possible be the leaders in scope issues?

CAL total mainline fleet equals 341 aircraft as of Aug. 11, 2009. Regional aircraft flying under the CAL brand- 460!!!.

Under the CAL brand more regional aircraft are labeled CAL than mainline aircraft. CAL has the worst scope of any legacy and has lost the highest percentage of mainline pilot positions of any legacy to regional ratio. Not to mention the code share lost jobs, not easily counted. CAL entered the Star Alliance domestically because CAL has no west coast presence, even after CAL was originally established as a west coast airline.

CAL is a huge brand but a tiny mainline. It is all hype done with the bait and switch, CAL style with an 80% compliant pilot group who will sign off on anything management wants.

Airline Pilot.com data

CAL Total- 341/ Regionals flying under CAL brand- 460
777-200: 20
767--400: 16
767-200: 10
757-300: 17
757-200: 41
737-900ER: 21
737-900: 12
737-800:108
737-700: 36
737-300: 20
737-500: 40

XJT- total 244
EMB145XR: 100
EMB145: 140

Chautaququa/Republic- 83 total
EMB145: 60
EMB140: 15
CRJ200: 13

Colgan-96 total-- 46 more Q4's on firm order
Q4- 14
SB340B-36

Commute Air- 16 total
Dash 8: 16

Jetstream- 21 total aircraft
B1900D: 21

 

[Farva]

Rebuttal to Rebuttal

The line drawn in the sand is here.

E170/190 : 0
CRJ700/900 : 0

We are leaders in this respect.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Rebuttal to Rebuttal

The line drawn in the sand is here.

E170/190 : 0
CRJ700/900 : 0

We are leaders in this respect.

60 Q4's are 60 more than zero.

And more non brand airframes flying than the mainline airframes is worse than anyone else.

 

[Kugelblitz]

My rebuttal is that I have a bit too much of a life to keep statistics like that! My hat is off to you for your thoroughness but I think the later point about the EMB170/90's is what I was referring too. If the majors want to try and entice people to climb onto a 120 seat turboprop someday and fly coast to coast, more power to them. The problem are the DC-9/Md-80 like regional jet replacements that are kicking us out of jobs and decent pay.

As far as the compliant pilot thing, that is truly an issue in the past and not the present but if you need to pigeonhole us that way, go ahead. Nobody has signed off on anything over here lately, and the scabs are dying off (literally). I am not stoked about being a CAL pilot, but I wouldn't be excited about Delta, United,SWA, or anyone else for that matter. These are not the same airlines we grew up with and all of them have had their best days long behind them. All the majors are nothing more than pantomimes of what they once were, led by a bunch of a-moral Harvard business school types.

Again, want to blame the rapidly deteriorating pilot industry on CAL, go ahead.

 

[100/hour/5y]

CAL has great work rules.... FARs

 

[rjacobs]

Rebuttal: How could CAL possible be the leaders in scope issues?

CAL total mainline fleet equals 341 aircraft as of Aug. 11, 2009. Regional aircraft flying under the CAL brand- 460!!!.

Under the CAL brand more regional aircraft are labeled CAL than mainline aircraft. CAL has the worst scope of any legacy and has lost the highest percentage of mainline pilot positions of any legacy to regional ratio. Not to mention the code share lost jobs, not easily counted. CAL entered the Star Alliance domestically because CAL has no west coast presence, even after CAL was originally established as a west coast airline.

CAL is a huge brand but a tiny mainline. It is all hype done with the bait and switch, CAL style with an 80% compliant pilot group who will sign off on anything management wants.

Airline Pilot.com data

CAL Total- 341/ Regionals flying under CAL brand- 460
777-200: 20
767--400: 16
767-200: 10
757-300: 17
757-200: 41
737-900ER: 21
737-900: 12
737-800:108
737-700: 36
737-300: 20
737-500: 40

XJT- total 244
EMB145XR: 100
EMB145: 140

Chautaququa/Republic- 83 total
EMB145: 60
EMB140: 15
CRJ200: 13

Colgan-96 total-- 46 more Q4's on firm order
Q4- 14
SB340B-36

Commute Air- 16 total
Dash 8: 16

Jetstream- 21 total aircraft
B1900D: 21

Your numbers are completely wrong.

XJT operates 205 airplanes for CAL currently, CHQ operates 15-20 aircraft for CAL right now(the rest for other carriers), Colgan operates 14 Q's and maybe 10 or so(not sure the exact number) of S340's(the rest for United and USAir), Commute Air and Gulfstream numbers are correct since they only fly for CAL. So using the correct math CAL has 286 total regional aircraft flying for them. Colgan will be flying 15 more Q's starting summer 2010, but at the same time the CHQ contract is ending then so their 15-20 aircraft will be parked.

The numbers dont seem to favor the regionals when you use correct numbers.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Yes, but don't forget by years end 2009, CAL will have parked all its old gen 737-300. And will continue to park additional 737-500 reducing its total airframe count of 341 further.

CAL will have 300 airframes by 2010. Pretty darn close to the regional count which will further increase with that wonderful CAL Scope.

You just got scooped.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

If the majors want to try and entice people to climb onto a 120 seat turboprop someday and fly coast to coast, more power to them. The problem are the DC-9/Md-80 like regional jet replacements that are kicking us out of jobs and decent pay.

CAL management assigns 737's as transcon airframes. It uses 757 for Atlantic crossings against the wind.

Would CAL stuff passengers into a Q 600 with 120 seats and fly it across the country? CAL already does that exact thing whether the passengers like it or not. And then they brag about what a great customer service they provide.

Does CAL scope prevent a 120 seat transon turboprop from flying the brand? NO!

All CAL has to do is tell the advertisers its like riding in a Prius.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

As far as the compliant pilot thing, that is truly an issue in the past and not the present but if you need to pigeonhole us that way, go ahead. Nobody has signed off on anything over here lately, and the scabs are dying off (literally).

Really, are you a union rep.? An issue of the past? Yea right.

CAL is the only airline which is still flying over 200 over 60 pilots who were over 60 on Dec. 13, 2007. 200+ of them. A major senior seniority block that will be target number one in a merged SLI reducing CAL's integration abilities.

CAL is as compliant a pilot group as JBLU.

 

[catIIIc]

Yes, but don't forget by years end 2009, CAL will have parked all its old gen 737-300. And will continue to park additional 737-500 reducing its total airframe count of 341 further.

CAL will have 300 airframes by 2010. Pretty darn close to the regional count which will further increase with that wonderful CAL Scope.

You just got scooped.

If you are going to throw out numbers and call scooped you better make sure they are right.

According to our last 8k filling:
End of '10 mainline fleet count:347
End of '10 regional fleet count: 265

http://www.continental.com/web/en-U...tor/docs/continental_8k_2009_072101.pdf#fleet

Sell crazy somewhere else.

 

[rjacobs]

Yes, but don't forget by years end 2009, CAL will have parked all its old gen 737-300. And will continue to park additional 737-500 reducing its total airframe count of 341 further.

CAL will have 300 airframes by 2010. Pretty darn close to the regional count which will further increase with that wonderful CAL Scope.

You just got scooped.

Read the post below

If you are going to throw out numbers and call scooped you better make sure they are right.

According to our last 8k filling:
End of '10 mainline fleet count:347
End of '10 regional fleet count: 265

http://www.continental.com/web/en-U...tor/docs/continental_8k_2009_072101.pdf#fleet

Sell crazy somewhere else.

Here is CAL's fleet forecast through 2010. If your going to spout numbers off, like I said before, you need to check your facts as there are people on here much smarter than you who actually do research before throwing "facts" out.


Total Total Total
Qtr Year Year
End End End
2Q09 3Q09E 4Q09E 2009E 1Q10E 2Q10E 3Q10E 4Q10E 2010E
Mainline
777-200ER 20 - - 20 - 2 - - 22
767-400ER 16 - - 16 - - - - 16
767-200ER 10 - - 10 - - - - 10
757-300 17 - - 17 3 1 - - 21
757-200 41 - - 41 - - - - 41
737-900ER 22 6 2 30 - - 2 - 32
737-900 12 - - 12 - - - - 12
737-800 117 - - 117 4 4 1 - 126
737-700 36 - - 36 - - - - 36
737-500* 40 (6) - 34 (3) - - - 31
737-300* 20 (12) (4) 4 (4) - - - -
Total 351 (12) (2) 337 - 7 3 - 347
Regional
ERJ-145 229 - - 229 - - - - 229
ERJ-135 - - - - - - - - -
CRJ200LR 7 - - 7 (7) - - - -
Q400 14 - - 14 - - 1 5 20
Q200 16 - - 16 - - - - 16
Total 266 - - 266 (7) - 1 5 265

Total Count 617 (12) (2) 603 (7) 7 4 5 612
I do agree with you that CAL has a ton of regional aircraft, but please look at every other airline as well and look at how many regional vs. mainline aircraft they have and I bet the CAL numbers wont be so terrible. Then look at the seat count between the CAL regional aircraft and every other airline and I bet the numbers will look even more rediculous.

 

[rjacobs]

Yes, but don't forget by years end 2009, CAL will have parked all its old gen 737-300. And will continue to park additional 737-500 reducing its total airframe count of 341 further.

CAL will have 300 airframes by 2010. Pretty darn close to the regional count which will further increase with that wonderful CAL Scope.

You just got scooped.

Read the post below

If you are going to throw out numbers and call scooped you better make sure they are right.

According to our last 8k filling:
End of '10 mainline fleet count:347
End of '10 regional fleet count: 265

http://www.continental.com/web/en-U...tor/docs/continental_8k_2009_072101.pdf#fleet

Sell crazy somewhere else.

Here is CAL's fleet forecast through 2010. If your going to spout numbers off, like I said before, you need to check your facts as there are people on here much smarter than you who actually do research before throwing "facts" out.


Total Total Total
Qtr Year Year
End End End
2Q09 3Q09E 4Q09E 2009E 1Q10E 2Q10E 3Q10E 4Q10E 2010E
Mainline
777-200ER 20 - - 20 - 2 - - 22
767-400ER 16 - - 16 - - - - 16
767-200ER 10 - - 10 - - - - 10
757-300 17 - - 17 3 1 - - 21
757-200 41 - - 41 - - - - 41
737-900ER 22 6 2 30 - - 2 - 32
737-900 12 - - 12 - - - - 12
737-800 117 - - 117 4 4 1 - 126
737-700 36 - - 36 - - - - 36
737-500* 40 (6) - 34 (3) - - - 31
737-300* 20 (12) (4) 4 (4) - - - -
Total 351 (12) (2) 337 - 7 3 - 347
Regional
ERJ-145 229 - - 229 - - - - 229
ERJ-135 - - - - - - - - -
CRJ200LR 7 - - 7 (7) - - - -
Q400 14 - - 14 - - 1 5 20
Q200 16 - - 16 - - - - 16
Total 266 - - 266 (7) - 1 5 265

Total Count 617 (12) (2) 603 (7) 7 4 5 612


I do agree with you that CAL has a ton of regional aircraft, but please look at every other airline as well and look at how many regional vs. mainline aircraft they have and I bet the CAL numbers wont be so terrible. Then look at the seat count between the CAL regional aircraft and every other airline's and even though CAL's regional fleet is pretty big, I bet the overall ratio of seats at mainline vs. regional will surprise you with every other airline having some form of 70-90 seat aircraft in large quantities.