CAL Furloughees

[Twotter Driver]

Don't forget the other 2 757-300s that are still waiting for the seat fix!

I'm pretty sure all 4 EX-ATA 75-300's are online now.

 

[Twotter Driver]

Word on the street is approx. 250 vacancies on the August bid. We will recall on the August bid and will likely place UAL furloughees in the other vacancies. Only expecting 70-100 of our 147 furloughs to return. UAL has almost 1,500 on furlough so I don't anticipate hiring off the street anytime soon.

 

[thor2j]

I'm pretty sure all 4 EX-ATA 75-300's are online now.

Actually they are not. Two got tied up in the seat fiasco

 

[thor2j]

Word on the street is approx. 250 vacancies on the August bid. We will recall on the August bid and will likely place UAL furloughees in the other vacancies. Only expecting 70-100 of our 147 furloughs to return. UAL has almost 1,500 on furlough so I don't anticipate hiring off the street anytime soon.

I want all the UAL guys back at work ASAP, but until the SLI is complete we should not be putting them on CAL property. Way, way too many loopholes and lawsuits coming with this one.

 

[Bigoober]

No kidding.

 

[skywdriver]

I want all the UAL guys back at work ASAP, but until the SLI is complete we should not be putting them on CAL property. Way, way too many loopholes and lawsuits coming with this one.

exactly. they can come back if they give up their UAL seniority and consider themselves a CAL pilot for integration purposes. otherwise, bringing them back is done at the expense of the CAL list, because any newhires would most certainly be at the bottom of the CAL list whereas a UAL furloughed guy could jump ahead assuming they get an advantage in the integration.

 

[Flopgut]

I disagree. Poor form to not find some way to get a furloughed pilot (from either company) a job. Complete the verification process for a baseline before recalls then get pilots back to work.

 

[thor2j]

I disagree. Poor form to not find some way to get a furloughed pilot (from either company) a job. Complete the verification process for a baseline before recalls then get pilots back to work.

Not poor form at all. Until they are the same certificate it will open a whole other can of worms.

 

[Flopgut]

Not poor form at all. Until they are the same certificate it will open a whole other can of worms.

No, there's no other can of worms. It's a merger and the right thing to do is recall their pilots as soon as there is opportunity. These are union brethren AND soon to be the same company.

I don't think you've thought this through. It's real clear what the right thing to do is and you need to be real happy that your union/company is doing it. Act out of an abundance of regard for these pilots now and it will pay later.

 

[bluefin]

I want all the UAL guys back at work ASAP, but until the SLI is complete we should not be putting them on CAL property. Way, way too many loopholes and lawsuits coming with this one.

Same company right? UAL furloughs are going to be maybe at the bottom mixed in with C furloughs right? C will recall all furloughed pilots then call U's right? so whats the problem? I know you guys think your gonna get screwed by the furloughed guys, your not. Remember most jr active at U is 1999. How many hired after that at C? Thats what ya need to worry about. The furloughed guys at U know we have no voice in the SLI, praying for the best, waiting for the worst.

 

[AWACoff]

Same company right? UAL furloughs are going to be maybe at the bottom mixed in with C furloughs right? C will recall all furloughed pilots then call U's right? so whats the problem? I know you guys think your gonna get screwed by the furloughed guys, your not. Remember most jr active at U is 1999. How many hired after that at C? Thats what ya need to worry about. The furloughed guys at U know we have no voice in the SLI, praying for the best, waiting for the worst.

Blue, I agree with the sentiment of your post. Does it seem fair to you that a pilot 146 numbers from a likely recall this year should be integrated on the SLI with the number 1437 guy on furlough from United and no imminent recall? Conversely, is it fair for the number 1 furloughed pilot from CAL to be integrated with the number 1 furlough from United (one has months on property while the other had years on property).

I would say that both could look very unfair. Career expectations is going to be the deciding point in this SLI because longevity across both seniority lists is not complimentary. When United was hiring, CAL wasn't and vice versa.

I think the fairest way to do the SLI is to take the top 1/3 of the list and make them the bottom third. Then, staple all the scabs. Two thirds of the combined seniority list will be happy and the scabs will finally get their due.

I don't understand why people are concerned about a furloughed pilot being senior to an active pilot on a SLI

 

[Mike Ditka]

I'm all for bringing all United guys back with CAL, but the two carriers aren't even close to being on one certificate yet. Nor has this merger been approved. What happens if CAL recalls their furloughs, then the UAL ones in anticipation the merger will go through and it somehow gets shot down? Where does that leave those United guys? It's for that reason I don't see how they could be brought onto CAL at this stage. I suppose some sort of agreement could be reached, but these are uncharted waters. It sux either way, who'd want to be a CAL newhire with the possibility of being leapfrogged by 1400+ UAL furloughs.

-Da Coach

 

[ATA For Now!]

I'm a furloughed UA guy and about 50 or so from the bottom. When this is done, I expect to be 50 or so from the bottom. If I can accept a recall to CAL before the SLI is complete and have to give up my UA sen #, I don't expect to go ahead of anyone. I expect to be 50 or so from the bottom....forever....(well, at least until the SLI is complete and we start hiring off the street!!)

We need to concentrate on the JCBA, work rules and SCOPE SCOPE SCOPE before anything else. It's great to negotiate $500/hr pay rates but sucks if there's no airplanes to fly.

Recapture ALL 50+ seat flying, decent pay/work rule increases and better job protection ala codeshare. Then, we will ALL have a chance to move forward. There's a lot of old bastards at UA! Retirements will create upward movement and more jobs for all.

We need to do this with a long term outlook not a shortsighted "what's in it for me" gain. We have a golden oppourtunity here if we don't SCREW it up.

RV

 

[HHH]

I'm a furloughed UA guy and about 50 or so from the bottom. When this is done, I expect to be 50 or so from the bottom. If I can accept a recall to CAL before the SLI is complete and have to give up my UA sen #, I don't expect to go ahead of anyone. I expect to be 50 or so from the bottom....forever....(well, at least until the SLI is complete and we start hiring off the street!!)

We need to concentrate on the JCBA, work rules and SCOPE SCOPE SCOPE before anything else. It's great to negotiate $500/hr pay rates but sucks if there's no airplanes to fly.

Recapture ALL 50+ seat flying, decent pay/work rule increases and better job protection ala codeshare. Then, we will ALL have a chance to move forward. There's a lot of old bastards at UA! Retirements will create upward movement and more jobs for all.

We need to do this with a long term outlook not a shortsighted "what's in it for me" gain. We have a golden oppourtunity here if we don't SCREW it up.

RV

Good post.

 

[Billsflyer]

Why are we discussing this, we have not even recalled a single pilot of the 147 yet. Let's start with a bid with recalls on it, then we can go down this road. Until then back to my furlough.

 

[mamba20]

Blue, I agree with the sentiment of your post. Does it seem fair to you that a pilot 146 numbers from a likely recall this year should be integrated on the SLI with the number 1437 guy on furlough from United and no imminent recall? Conversely, is it fair for the number 1 furloughed pilot from CAL to be integrated with the number 1 furlough from United (one has months on property while the other had years on property).

I would say that both could look very unfair. Career expectations is going to be the deciding point in this SLI because longevity across both seniority lists is not complimentary. When United was hiring, CAL wasn't and vice versa.

I think the fairest way to do the SLI is to take the top 1/3 of the list and make them the bottom third. Then, staple all the scabs. Two thirds of the combined seniority list will be happy and the scabs will finally get their due.

I don't understand why people are concerned about a furloughed pilot being senior to an active pilot on a SLI

We should fire all the scabs and hire real pilots.

 

[bluefin]

Blue, I agree with the sentiment of your post. Does it seem fair to you that a pilot 146 numbers from a likely recall this year should be integrated on the SLI with the number 1437 guy on furlough from United and no imminent recall? Conversely, is it fair for the number 1 furloughed pilot from CAL to be integrated with the number 1 furlough from United (one has months on property while the other had years on property).

I would say that both could look very unfair. Career expectations is going to be the deciding point in this SLI because longevity across both seniority lists is not complimentary. When United was hiring, CAL wasn't and vice versa.

I think the fairest way to do the SLI is to take the top 1/3 of the list and make them the bottom third. Then, staple all the scabs. Two thirds of the combined seniority list will be happy and the scabs will finally get their due.

I don't understand why people are concerned about a furloughed pilot being senior to an active pilot on a SLI

What you and I think are fair are two different ideas. We have no control over the process and have to be ready to deal with it if and when it happens. I hope this opportunity is used to right the wrongs of this proffession. By the way there is a very ugly RUMOR passing around U and that it is all U furloughees are going to be "SEVERED" from the new company. We must all wait and see.

 

[flygirlqt]

We should fire all the scabs and hire real pilots.

I wonder how much the special assessments would be when they collectively and successfully sued ALPA under a dfr lawsuit?

The damages awarded will probably be a lot more than you will ever see working under ALPA representation during your lifetime.

 

[mamba20]

I wonder how much the special assessments would be when they collectively and successfully sued ALPA under a dfr lawsuit?

The damages awarded will probably be a lot more than you will ever see working under ALPA representation during your lifetime.

What the hell is your problem? Ever heard of sarcasim?

 

[flygirlqt]

What the hell is your problem? Ever heard of sarcasim?

My problem is watching the industry being destroyed by petty infighting and the crushing of unity within the ranks. It is one of the main reasons I left to go back to law school.

I always found it interesting that despite the scabs and their vile choices to cross a picket line, they were very accurate with their views on what a rip off ALPA is. Especially coming from the former ALPA members that crossed. What made it even more interesting is listening to some of the returning strikers that also shared the same opinions about ALPA after it was over. In a way it was surreal and if you didn't pay attention to employee numbers you might not know who you were flying with at the time.

I just had dinner the other night with a "B3" er that said the exact same thing you did, as well as others, and was serious about wanting to fire all the 83 - 85 hires. For some, it is not sarcasm. My response was the same that I said to you and it is a valid point. It's ok because he also got pretty huffy.