CAL DEN and ORD bases???

[densoo]

Well, I've done two training cycles at CAL (73,756) and never once did I do a single CBT prior to my first day in class. I don't like them but the idea that they cannot be completed is a bit absurd. I think CBT's blow but they're not that hard to get through.

I had the same experience generally. When you get them done before training even starts it gives you more time during training to focus on the next FTD or sim event.

The problem is that when most folks get them done before training and consequently have more time to better prepare for the next FTD or Sim, then this better performance becomes the expectation rather than the norm and anyone who doesn't do them before training starts is now seen as underperforming, just because they're going through the program as designed.

Additionally, the folks who build the training syllabus see the general overperformance of the pre-prepared pilots and figure the syllabus is too easy and shorten it to save money. Now the guy who doesn't do all the CBTs before training is hosed because the shortened syllabus falsely assumes it can all be done after training starts when it can't.

 

[eaglesview]

The fact of the matter is that the contract blows. If UAL guys don't think they can work under the agreement, than they should stay on furlough. If UAL guys are given a legal assignment and they refuse it, they'll answer to someone for it. If they do it enough times, I suspect they'll find themselves back on furlough. Either way, I don't care. I don't blame them either. Everyone makes choices and I wish them all the best but I hardly think the company is concerned.

There will be qualified applicants lining up for jobs at L-CAL this summer. Unfortunately, the company knows this all to well.

Just because an assignment is legal does not mean it is safe. Refusing an assignment for fatigue is absolutly the right thing to do if your "legal" assignment has not allowed for enough rest.

 

[eaglesview]

I had the same experience generally. Not that big a deal. When you get them done before training even starts it gives you more time during training to focus on the next FTD or sim event.

The problem is that when most folks get them done before training and consequently have more time to better prepare for the next FTD or Sim, then this better performance becomes the expectation rather than the norm and anyone who doesn't do them before training starts is now seen as underperforming, just because they're going through the program as designed.

Unless a pilot is on the clock no advanced training should be done. When will we learn. We are our own worst enemy.

 

[UAL-GSO]

Sounds like the 73.....

73 reserve is pretty awful. If I were a UAL guy considering a position at CAL...Id only do it on the 756.

I think the 756 was only an option for the first handful of "new hires" last year. I think it's been all 73 since then. I do recall from ten years ago, however, that wide body/int'l reserve beats domestic hands down.

 

[ATRCA]

Just because an assignment is legal does not mean it is safe. Refusing an assignment for fatigue is absolutly the right thing to do if your "legal" assignment has not allowed for enough rest.

I agree.

 

[ATRCA]

I think the 756 was only an option for the first handful of "new hires" last year. I think it's been all 73 since then. I do recall from ten years ago, however, that wide body/int'l reserve beats domestic hands down.

There are UAL guys coming on line at the moment to the 756. Several actually. Those folks will have a VERY different experience than their classmates on the 73. I suspect we'll see lots of UAL guys able to bid the 756 immediately. It's not terribly uncommon at CAL to have new hires on the 756.

 

[densoo]

Unless a pilot is on the clock no advanced training should be done. When will we learn. We are our own worst enemy.

I guess that's my point.

 

[UAL-GSO]

There are UAL guys coming on line at the moment to the 756. Several actually. Those folks will have a VERY different experience than their classmates on the 73. I suspect we'll see lots of UAL guys able to bid the 756 immediately. It's not terribly uncommon at CAL to have new hires on the 756.

Good - reminds me of the good days at UAL circa 2000/2001.

 

[ATRCA]

I guess that's my point.

My point as well. I won't look at a single second of those CBT's until day one. I also don't have my manuals sent to my home. I pick them up in the School House when I arrive.

All that being said. Training at CAL is very easy. I can't imagine that any of these guys will struggle so long as the minimum effort is being made.

 

[densoo]

All that being said. Training at CAL is very easy. I can't imagine that any of these guys will struggle so long as the minimum effort is being made.

I didin't find it necessarily easy, but it was well put together and line oriented without a lot of extraneous chaff that one often finds in training programs. My only beef was it was pretty compressed for new-hire initial qual. Training to a different aircraft or upgrade seems to be more evenly paced, but that may be just because one isn't new to the company.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Well the company better get used to new work rules that will be coming with the JCBA and the abuse is gonna stop.

 

[ATRCA]

Well the company better get used to new work rules that will be coming with the JCBA and the abuse is gonna stop.

I think everyone feels that way. These are the last days of this concessionary agreement. Things will indeed change.

 

[Andy]

If UAL guys are given a legal assignment and they refuse it, they'll answer to someone for it. If they do it enough times, I suspect they'll find themselves back on furlough. Either way, I don't care.

Thanks, Brother ALPA Pilot. Different variation but same message that I heard quite a bit while on the last and to a lesser extent this furlough from some still on property.

Just because I'm given a 'legal' assignment doesn't mean that I'm legal to fly it. FAR 91.13 applies for those of us who are too fatigued to accept a 'legal' assignment.
I'm 51 years old and contrary to what the snake oil that the 60+ crowd is trying to sell, I can't keep up with a 30something or even early/mid 40something pilot. I actually get fatigued and like grampa Simpson, I doze off on occasion. I don't want to doze off while at work.

As for finding myself back on the street if I invoke FAR 91.13, that's fine. I have enough money saved up to hire a decent attorney. It's good to know that you've got my back - you can stick you shiv just below my left shoulder blade ... that spot should be free of previous shivs.

Unless a pilot is on the clock no advanced training should be done. When will we learn. We are our own worst enemy.

True. But we all like to have an 'edge'. I haven't turned a wheel since late 2008 (went on mil lv for 6 mos before furlough) so training should be 'entertaining'. As long as you consider driving an ice pick into your temple entertaining.
No, I won't get a jump start on training. Yes, I'll be on the far right side of the bell curve.

I think the 756 was only an option for the first handful of "new hires" last year. I think it's been all 73 since then. I do recall from ten years ago, however, that wide body/int'l reserve beats domestic hands down.

That's correct; a few 756 slots but have been all Guppy for a while.