CAL 737 pilots

[IAHERJ]

True statement. Continental led the industry in altitude busts in the United Kingdom for years. Could have been that we operated more than any U.S. airline for many years there but nevertheless we had issues. This was not a battle we chose to fight. United had better altitude compliance so this was adopted as an in-state procedure as it was seen as a "best practice".

 

[densoo]

True statement. Continental led the industry in altitude busts in the United Kingdom for years. Could have been that we operated more than any U.S. airline for many years there but nevertheless we had issues. This was not a battle we chose to fight. United had better altitude compliance so this was adopted as an in-state procedure as it was seen as a "best practice".

Thanks for the insight. Hope the change helps, although I don't think who spins that knob will make a lot of difference. After viewing the Phase 4 training I'm a lot more concerned about the flare-to-land discussion regarding crab, slip, and slip/crab than about the altitude set knob.

 

[propjob27]

Just for reference, I have worked at 3 different airlines. CAL was the only one that had the PF select the altitude on the MCP. What do they do at AA, DL, or US?

FYI:

FedEx: autopilot on, PF makes all changes to FCP/MCP whatever you want to call it.

Autopilot off, PM makes all changes to FCP/MCP

Either way, other pilot has to verbally verifity the change (if it was an altitude), ie "12,000 set". No verbal verification for heading / airspeed changes

 

[list2002]

I saw that slip to land section on the overview in our V-files and agree... not what I was taught, had a few captains insist I slip during a crosswind landing, um, no thanks.

 

[eaglesview]

True statement. Continental led the industry in altitude busts in the United Kingdom for years. Could have been that we operated more than any U.S. airline for many years there but nevertheless we had issues. This was not a battle we chose to fight. United had better altitude compliance so this was adopted as an in-state procedure as it was seen as a "best practice".

I don't think this is due to MCP procedures rather than the having the relief pilot deadheading on flights less than 8 hours going east. The pilots were exauhsted. I think UA/CO procedures will continue to morf long after the merger and the combined group will come up with what's best.

 

[IAHERJ]

I don't think this is due to MCP procedures rather than the having the relief pilot deadheading on flights less than 8 hours going east. The pilots were exauhsted. I think UA/CO procedures will continue to morf long after the merger and the combined group will come up with what's best.

I completely agree with what you are saying. The protocol for adopting the "best practice" in areas where each carrier had different procedures called for each side to adopt either UAL or CAL procedures. On issues of altitude and altitude setting procedures on the MCP, CAL could not argue that their method led to less altitude deviations thus the UAL argument won out in the end without much of a fight from the CAL guys in the room.

 

[Abernathy]

I saw that slip to land section on the overview in our V-files and agree... not what I was taught, had a few captains insist I slip during a crosswind landing, um, no thanks.

Can you guys elaborate on what you're talking about as this sounds interesting..

 

[densoo]

Can you guys elaborate on what you're talking about as this sounds interesting..

Crosswind landing techniques.

 

[aa73]

AA = PM puts in altitude changes at all times, A/P on or off. Sets the altitude and "points and shoots" to it until the PF confirms it. Seems like a safe enough procedure.

 

[eaglesview]

AA = PM puts in altitude changes at all times, A/P on or off. Sets the altitude and "points and shoots" to it until the PF confirms it. Seems like a safe enough procedure.

This is what UA does however I think that is changing. I may be wrong about that as I havn't done the latest training yet.

 

[BoilerUP]

AA = PM puts in altitude changes at all times, A/P on or off. Sets the altitude and "points and shoots" to it until the PF confirms it. Seems like a safe enough procedure.

This is what we did at Air Wisconsin, and the way I operate Part 91.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Continental led the industry in altitude busts in the United Kingdom.......

UK. Anomaly. CAL has always had the dumb ass, knee-jerk reaction to any problem that arises. Never will CAL identify the problem and try to fix that individual or group subset but rather throw the entire pilot group under the bus. IMHO, this is not safer and I foresee and rather increased number of altitude busts domestically until the pilot group adjusts to this stupidity.

 

[AK737FO]

Good grief... three pages of gum flapping about setting an altitude in the MCP. Why do pilots have a propensity to make mountains out of mole hills?
I'm sure that my airline has a by the book procedure for PF or PNF with AP on or AP off. I don't know and I don't care. If it's convenient for me to set the altitude, then I set it. If it's convenient for the F/O to set the altitude, then he/she can set it. I don't care as long as it gets set - then we both do the company's required little finger point. Big picture, forest from trees, shinny side up- dirty side down, fly A to B, go home, collect check.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Good grief... three pages of gum flapping about setting an altitude in the MCP. Why do pilots have a propensity to make mountains out of mole hills?
I'm sure that my airline has a by the book procedure for PF or PNF with AP on or AP off. I don't know and I don't care. If it's convenient for me to set the altitude, then I set it. If it's convenient for the F/O to set the altitude, then he/she can set it. I don't care as long as it gets set - then we both do the company's required little finger point. Big picture, forest from trees, shinny side up- dirty side down, fly A to B, go home, collect check.

They changed it during my "vacation" for the better. It's the usual PM AP OFF/PF AP ON, but we have a few words were it says something like, "if it makes more sense CRM/workload-wise: do what works."

A rare bit of common sense.

 

[mesaba13]

Mesaba had a huge decline in altitude deviations as a result of this new procedure!