Cabotage threat... worse than RJs?

[publisher]

Apples and Oranges

You guys are all over the place here,,,,,,acmi, cabotage, and Part 129.

We have had US carriers doing ACMI for all kinds of domestic and foreign carriers forever. They do it and we do it.

As to the rights issues, that is very complex and not something that will get resolved here. In a small world, it is not easy for what goes around comes around.

Part 129 are merely carriers flying into the US and following FAA regulations for this type carrier.

There is a lot of talk on here about "our" flights and "our flying". Who is the our. This compeititve world means there is no our anything.

 

[skydiverdriver]

I beg to differ with publisher. Dont' we have trade laws and tarifs on imported goods? What's the difference with services? And aren't our commercial airlines important to interstate commerce and national defense? Arent there laws regulating how much a foriegn company can own a US airline?

Perhaps my example was apples and oranges, but I'm not sure why. Again I say that I don't know much about this, and would like someone to explain it to me. Just telling me that my example was not good doesn't help much.

 

[Dieterly]

ifly4food,

Ever heard of an airline called Atlas, or how about Gemini (sp), even Airborne does the same thing with their -8's out of MIA.
Or how about NW in Asia, in NRT can see 10-12 747's and 4 320's at the same time, many of just stopping to pick/drop off up PAX and then continue to TPE, ICN or MNL, to name a few places.

"""Atlas Air Long-Term ACMI

Maximum Payload is 112 metric tons for the 747-200F and 118 metric tons for the 747-400F. A standard ACMI (Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance) 3-5 year lease includes:

Aircraft
Crew
Maintenance
Insurance (aircraft third-party liability)
On-Demand Customer Service Center"""

 

[publisher]

Rights

There are restrictions which are in fact negotiated. There are limits on foreign ownership of Part 121 air carriers, I believe it is 20% but not sure.

These do not cover ACMI which is really just a lease of an aircraft with crew to fly your routes. For instance, while I was at Evergreen, we flew a Quantas route and a Saudi Arabian cargo route.

The Freedoms are why a foreign carrier can first of all fly to the United States at all and are also what restricts them from landing at Miami and then picking up domestic passengrs to go on to NY. They are allowed to go on to NY with passengers originating in the foreign country.

To deal with some of this you have airlines like North American which was created by El Al however US owned. They take El Al passengers along with domestic. Tower Air was sort of like this.

These rights are negotiated by the Department of State in cooridination with other agencies to see to it that we get equal rights into other countries. It is as much political as having anything to do with aviation.

 

[TurboS7]

All sounds well, but try and do an ACMI deal in the EU with U.S. pilots. Sorry it won't work, they, the EU, will not allow it. Something to think about. What is fair has to be fair, at this point it is not.FYI Miami Air is not doing any ACMI business at this time, it just doesn't pay.

 

[publisher]

Turbo

ACMI is not a pilot issue..... The question is will they let a US 121 certificated carrier fly others routes under an ACMI contract, it is not a pilot thing.

Miami Air may not but there are many different type ACMI contracts. The advantage is you have no market risk. They are done all the time. Like a full charter, the advantage to an airline is that they are usually providing their own fuel at their price and the same with ground handling. It works out better for them than having th echarter operator do them.