Cabotage, can PAC stop it?

[General Lee]

Emirates will never EVER fly a cabotage route. (ie. JFK-LAX) No way that will happen.

The threat is wide body int'l. (ie... senior legacy guys)

JFK-Milan is not cabotage.

The author in the article I posted pointed out that UAL flies 757s from most of the smaller UK cities to Newark, their largest hub on the East Coast. He stated if UAL can only fill a 757 to NYC ( EWR), how will EK fill a 777-300ER consistently? UAL has tons of connections to cities all over the US from EWR, but only flies 757s.....

And again from that article:

"Fortunately, the U.S. carriers can hide behind favorable geography and strong U.S. hubs. While Emirates and the other Gulf carriers are well positioned to steal traffic from European and Asian competitors, their hubs cannot offer reasonable connections for most international routes to and from the United States. There are also very few routes like New York-Milan, where Gulf carriers could feasibly compete "away from home."


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

If There was a commitment to use PAC funds solely for this purpose perhaps more would participate. Unfortunately we all know the recipients of PAC funds are all too often the very people most of us are voting against. I'm not willing to chance it

The enigma of the major airline pilot

The militantly anti union highly paid union worker

 

[8sugarsugar]

The author in the article I posted pointed out that UAL flies 757s from most of the smaller UK cities to Newark, their largest hub on the East Coast. He stated if UAL can only fill a 757 to NYC ( EWR), how will EK fill a 777-300ER consistently? UAL has tons of connections to cities all over the US from EWR, but only flies 757s.....

And again from that article:

"Fortunately, the U.S. carriers can hide behind favorable geography and strong U.S. hubs. While Emirates and the other Gulf carriers are well positioned to steal traffic from European and Asian competitors, their hubs cannot offer reasonable connections for most international routes to and from the United States. There are also very few routes like New York-Milan, where Gulf carriers could feasibly compete "away from home."


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why does ALPA have a beef over Emirates if they are not a threat?

 

[fareview]

I think what he means is - yes they are a competitive threat - but the REAL threat is to the European legacies, underscored by Motley Fool.

fv

 

[SWA Bubba]

The enigma of the major airline pilot

The militantly anti union highly paid union worker

It IS an interesting point, Wave. However, I'd venture to say that it's less "anti-union" per se, and more "anti-the other stuff" that a lot of the more militant unions and typical 'pro-union' politicians support. Do you not see any difference here?

Bubba

 

[Green]

Hi, what I posted was from an analyst, who correctly pointed out that the big 3 US carriers are geographically protected. The big 3 are getting stronger, and fortifying their US hubs. The Gulf 3 are more of a threat to European and SE Asian airlines, since the Gulf hubs are half way between them.

As far as Qantas goes, they never did have a large European presence, and mainly cared about UK connections to Australia. Well, they still have 2 daily 380s to LHR, and then you can connect some QF pax to European cities they never wanted to fly to. It's a win win for both, but QF gave up on most of Europe anyway.

Re-read that article I posted above. Your threat to the big 3 are as he put it "overblown."


Bye Bye---General Lee

I understood the premise of the article. I tend to think that most things produced by the Motley Fool are garbage. It reminds me of the general opinion of SWA in the early 90's. Of course they will never pose any real threat to the established legacy carriers...

No Emirates does not pose a serious threat to DAL over the next 3 years. But 10 years down the line the landscape might be drastically different. Thankfully ALPA is taking notice for once and seems to be motivated to fight back. Of course that could just be political maneuvering to keep the donations coming.

 

[General Lee]

Why does ALPA have a beef over Emirates if they are not a threat?

ALPA is facing pressure from several large airline pilot groups looking for alternative union choices. ALPA represents pilots, but is also a business. There has been outrage on the handling of the Age 65 issue, and internal infighting. Rallying the troops on something may help them seem like an actual "union."


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I understood the premise of the article. I tend to think that most things produced by the Motley Fool are garbage. It reminds me of the general opinion of SWA in the early 90's. Of course they will never pose any real threat to the established legacy carriers...

No Emirates does not pose a serious threat to DAL over the next 3 years. But 10 years down the line the landscape might be drastically different. Thankfully ALPA is taking notice for once and seems to be motivated to fight back. Of course that could just be political maneuvering to keep the donations coming.

Everyone has an opinion, especially about sites like "Motley Fool." But, this guy actually brings up good points, which is why I posted it. He points out the long distance between the US and DXB (as I did), and the strength of the US Carriers in their hubs. What I did think was noteworthy was his mentioning UAL 757s and EWR. He correctly points out that UAL has a huge hub in EWR, close to one of the largest and most important cities in the World (NYC), and they can only seem to fill 757-200s from smaller Western Europe cities (like HAM, TXL) and the British Isles (EDI, DUB, SNN, BHX, BFS, MAN, GLA) and even Lisbon. They fly larger 767-400s and 767-300s to other larger cities(like AMS, BRU, GVA, CDG, ZRH) and a 777 to LHR, but smaller 757s to the above cities.

So, what does that mean? UAL, one of the largest airlines in the US and the World, with huge feed opportunities to the LARGEST city in the US, can't fill more than a 757 to those cities above, yet EK may try with a 777-300ER?? Really??? Even the author thinks that's probably not going to work. I, of course, agree. Please tell me Green how that is gonna work, daily??? Why is the Motley Fool author wrong?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

I just started PAC contribution check off, so I'm in. We'll see if they don't turn around and screw the hell out of the younger guys again. Worst union ever.

 

[Green]

Everyone has an opinion, especially about sites like "Motley Fool." But, this guy actually brings up good points, which is why I posted it. He points out the long distance between the US and DXB (as I did), and the strength of the US Carriers in their hubs. What I did think was noteworthy was his mentioning UAL 757s and EWR. He correctly points out that UAL has a huge hub in EWR, close to one of the largest and most important cities in the World (NYC), and they can only seem to fill 757-200s from smaller Western Europe cities (like HAM, TXL) and the British Isles (EDI, DUB, SNN, BHX, BFS, MAN, GLA) and even Lisbon. They fly larger 767-400s and 767-300s to other larger cities(like AMS, BRU, GVA, CDG, ZRH) and a 777 to LHR, but smaller 757s to the above cities.

So, what does that mean? UAL, one of the largest airlines in the US and the World, with huge feed opportunities to the LARGEST city in the US, can't fill more than a 757 to those cities above, yet EK may try with a 777-300ER?? Really??? Even the author thinks that's probably not going to work. I, of course, agree. Please tell me Green how that is gonna work, daily??? Why is the Motley Fool author wrong?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Of course the Motley fool analyst is entitled to his opinion as are you. And you may be correct. I think the failure of UAL to fill up anything larger than a 757 on the route you mention is more of a reflection of their poor management skills. It doesn't necessarily mean there is no traffic potential on that route.

Just like SWA used to have the southwest effect I think EK tends to stimulate traffic wherever they fly. Whether or not it's right or wrong they have a bit of a buzz on the street. People want to try out the service. Things like inflight bars, showers, good food and drink, sexy fa's, polite service, millions spent on advertising, etc, etc create new traffic.

just my .02 and of course i could be wrong. I hope the US majors beat EK in any future battle.

 

[8sugarsugar]

ALPA is facing pressure from several large airline pilot groups looking for alternative union choices. ALPA represents pilots, but is also a business. There has been outrage on the handling of the Age 65 issue, and internal infighting. Rallying the troops on something may help them seem like an actual "union."


Bye Bye---General Lee

ahhh, like wag the dog. Lets create a big faux issue...rally the base against a common enemy.

But it seems to be working, Some ultra discount airline ******************************bag told me to "Stop killing american airline jobs." I told him to name one ALPA pilot that has lost his job because of Emirates.....and his response was, "well, uhhh, you WILL put all of us out of business"

Yes, Emirates will put Spirit out of business....:laugh: Emirates plans one class, 900 seat 380's from Detroit to FLL...Thats the next rumor.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Of course the Motley fool analyst is entitled to his opinion as are you. And you may be correct. I think the failure of UAL to fill up anything larger than a 757 on the route you mention is more of a reflection of their poor management skills. It doesn't necessarily mean there is no traffic potential on that route.

Just like SWA used to have the southwest effect I think EK tends to stimulate traffic wherever they fly. Whether or not it's right or wrong they have a bit of a buzz on the street. People want to try out the service. Things like inflight bars, showers, good food and drink, sexy fa's, polite service, millions spent on advertising, etc, etc create new traffic.

just my .02 and of course i could be wrong. I hope the US majors beat EK in any future battle.

Emirates has a long road to crack the US market. But all the flights are full.... Non of my family or friends have heard of the largest Int'l airline in the world...Emirates

Outside pilot circles, no American knows what "Fly Emirates" is besides a soccer sponsor.

Probably going to see a Super Bowl ad this year.

Their public goal as communicated by Tim Clark is to make the Emirates brand as recognizable as Coca-Cola.

Australia/UK/Africa/Euro its all over the place.

 

[General Lee]

ahhh, like wag the dog. Lets create a big faux issue...rally the base against a common enemy.

But it seems to be working, Some ultra discount airline ******************************bag told me to "Stop killing american airline jobs." I told him to name one ALPA pilot that has lost his job because of Emirates.....and his response was, "well, uhhh, you WILL put all of us out of business"

Yes, Emirates will put Spirit out of business....:laugh: Emirates plans one class, 900 seat 380's from Detroit to FLL...Thats the next rumor.

I gave you a plausible answer, and you disagree. But, it's true. ALPA is a business, making millions on dues. At least two big airlines are considering going "in house" for a new union, and USAir dumped ALPA for USAPA already. You don't seem to understand, the sand and dust seems to be clouding your brain. You want to think that EK could take over INTL Ops for the US Airlines, and that just won't happen. Keep putting 773s on routes that can barely fill UAL 757s, and see how long that lasts....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Emirates has a long road to crack the US market. But all the flights are full.... Non of my family or friends have heard of the largest Int'l airline in the world...Emirates

Outside pilot circles, no American knows what "Fly Emirates" is besides a soccer sponsor.

Probably going to see a Super Bowl ad this year.

Their public goal as communicated by Tim Clark is to make the Emirates brand as recognizable as Coca-Cola.

Australia/UK/Africa/Euro its all over the place.

It's great you sponsor Soccer matches (football) and maybe even the Superbowl. Too bad your company didn't use some of that money to give you some profit sharing..... I bet you guys are known in Europe and SE Asia fairly well, but the US will be a lot harder to crack as you stated, and a geographical advantage of the big 3 US Carriers may make it impossible. But, keep adding crazy routes like BHX to BOS and somebody may notice. (Probably the 67 pax each flight, except full on holidays)


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[8sugarsugar]

I gave you a plausible answer, and you disagree. But, it's true. ALPA is a business, making millions on dues. At least two big airlines are considering going "in house" for a new union, and USAir dumped ALPA for USAPA already. You don't seem to understand, the sand and dust seems to be clouding your brain. You want to think that EK could take over INTL Ops for the US Airlines, and that just won't happen. Keep putting 773s on routes that can barely fill UAL 757s, and see how long that lasts....



Bye Bye---General Lee

No, I agree. ALPA is in the business of collecting dues.

and I don't think EK will take over Int'l ops for Legacy. It will barely put a dent and no pilot will lose his job because of Emirates. But the legacy Int'l market will not grow and is shrinking because of many factors. It is just convenient to blame EK.