C17 Totalled in Bagram

[Mamma]

Pkober,

Stepping back from this and giving it a second look, I will agree with you. "Babysit" was a wrong choice of words. Apologies. "Help" or "be there for" would be a better choice. Also, I retract that the "unit was not combat tested." I don't know their history and I am sure they have done great things in the lizard. I also agree no ANG or reserve unit needs their hand held by AD. Your disco belt comment made me laugh too. How true.

 

[pkober]

If we cover all our aircraft with disco belts there is no way they can get hit by ground fire.

 

[Kikuchiyo]

pkober: The Jackson, MS, 172nd Airlift Wing finally got their C-17s, completing the transition from C-141s. Rather than get activated, they cut a deal with AMC to "help out" with airlift, while remaining unactivated Guard volunteers.

Part of the deal is that only they will fly their unit-assigned airplanes. This is different than how AMC normally operates a strategic airlift stage, by whichever crew is available flying whichever plane comes thru on the next mission. CHS crews fly McChord and McGuire plans regularly, and vice versa. In order to simplify the scheduling of them with their own airplanes, they go straight to Incirlik to operate from there for their full rotation, then straight home to swap out crews. I don't know how long they stay out (normal strat crews are on 2-week orders) as that too may have been part of the deal.

At Incirlik, crews get per diem and stay in normal billeting, versus the stages at Manas and Qatar where they're on field conditions. While many of the AD and Resv crews that keep going out to the stage (and have been for 4 years) would love to go to the 'Lik, the Jackson guys are filling most of the crew requirements there, so very few other crews get to. It's a sore subject in the C-17 community and is breeding very bad feelings for Jackson from everyone else.

Of course, if one wants to get hired there later, one does not speak ill of their ability to cut such a deal with AMC...

In fairness, I must provide an update to the above. I'm currently here at Incirlik, and the last Jackson crew is set to leave in the next couple days. They'll still be operating their own jets, but they're moving to Ramstein to take over the Medevac mission there from the C-141's.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Wonderful.....It just keeps getting better.

 

[sbav8r]

From a civi, I just want to thank all of you for your sacrifices. This thread really illustrates just how much stress and pressure you guys endure on a daily basis. You’re all heroes in my book.

Fly safe

 

[McNugget]

From a civi, I just want to thank all of you for your sacrifices. This thread really illustrates just how much stress and pressure you guys endure on a daily basis. You’re all heroes in my book.

Fly safe

I will second that! Also, cheers to the crew chiefs and ground personnel who work around the clock to keep them flying.

 

[Vandal]

I will second that! Also, cheers to the crew chiefs and ground personnel who work around the clock to keep them flying.

And cheers to the warriors in the beer line who give you crap as they circle you out! Earn that Tax Free! HOOAH!

 

[Vandal]

I don't have to know anyone in that unit to know that they don't need there hands held. If you're a reservist you don't need your hand held either. Helpful advice is always appreciated.

My last ,and forth, deployment to Iraq we had the wing commander speak to us. He is an AD Zoomie type O-6. He sat down in front of us and said " I know all you Guard guys have multiple tours under your belt, but it doesn't matter. Get with the active duty they know what's going on." Yeah, thanks Guy. You worry about disco belts and we'll worry about getting the mission done. The AD guys we were to get all the info from had never been in theater. Classic lack of understanding.

I hope your last comments about not knowing who we are playing against isn't implying I need to spend some time playing in the sandbox.

Stay safe

CLAMBAKE

Was he a "Venerable" 0-6? We were talked to by a guy who used to fly so low a well thrown rock could of taken him out.

 

[McNugget]

And cheers to the warriors in the beer line who give you crap as they circle you out! Earn that Tax Free! HOOAH!

What's that mean? What warriors in what beer line give who crap as they circle you out? Guess that one went right over my head.

 

[Vandal]

What's that mean? What warriors in what beer line give who crap as they circle you out? Guess that one went right over my head.

Sorry that's an Al Udeid reference...

 

[Delta Po Boy]

Magnum -

Here's a scenario that happened to while I was flying out of the Frankfurt stage. Hopefully, you'll realize what some of these young Aircraft Commanders are up against.

My crew was tasked to fly a mission into Iraq. When we arrived at the aircraft, we noticed our OBIGGS (system that pumps nitrogen enriched air into the fuel tanks as fuel is burned) was written up as inop. This system minimizes the affect of ruptured fuel tanks due to hostile fire. The OPORD specifically stated that we could not fly into the Iraqi AOR without this system. Maintenance told us the system was fixed, it would work properly when we got airborne, and it just wasn't working on the ground since we had a full fuel load. We disagreed, but we we wanted to move the mission. We told them we would fly it to the Iraqi border, but we would go no further if the system was not working properly. Could we operate the aircraft safely in the AOR without this system? Yes (as long as we didn't get shot at). But the OPORD clearly stated that we had to have the system while operating in the AOR.

Long story short, the system didn't work. We called command and control at the Iraqi border, explained the situation, and proceeded back to Frankfurt. After we turned around, we received an AERO-I call (plane's cell phone) from the stage's ADO. He asked us what the hell we were doing. When we explained the situation to him, he told us the deadhead crew in the back had to get to another stage and we needed to overfly Iraq and proceed to the next location. We told him we could not do it unless he could get us a waiver for the OPORD.

Upon landing in Frankfurt, we walked into Stage Ops where 6 CGO's were working along side the O-4 ADO. As we entered, he lit into us and told us we needed to "take our tampons out." Luckily for us, we were a reserve crew with three O-4's as the pilot crew. We explained that he was wrong, he was unprofessionally showing his ass in front of his CGO's, and there were no openings in the CHS reserves for folks with his name.

When we showed for the following mission, we were chatting with another crew member in Ops. He informed us that the same thing (OBIGGS failure) happened to a new active duty AC. When the crew informed the stage that they were turning around, the ADO told him that he would no longer be an AC if he returned to Frankfurt.

Is this an isolated incident? I think so and I hope so. Although I've seen some buffonary in the stages, I truly believe most folks in command do a great job and preach that safety is paramount. Does that mean that there aren't any idiots on power trips out in the system? Absolutely not.

Magnum, how would you have handled the situation if you were a new AC and your commander was telling you to "pull out the tampon?" I'm sure you would've done the right thing. Me - I would've been tempted to "pull it out" and "move the mission." After all, my commander was telling me to do it. Right?

 

[pkober]

Well done. You gotta love being Guard/Reserve.

CLAMBAKE

 

[TopGun-MAV]

how did a b17 end up in iraq? was it used in their airforce or left over from ww2?

mav

 

[AlbieF15]

...different MWS, different world...but...

One of the greatest benefits of being in the ANG is the (almost) complete lack of fear about career ramifications. You can focus on doing what you think is RIGHT, not what gets you promoted. Now...you need to take care of your unit, and you want your ANG team to have a good name, so you don't do stupid stuff. But when it comes down to calling it like you see it (like this C-17 story) I do like the fact that I am part of the ANG because I want to SERVE, not because I WANT TO GET PROMOTED. I'm sure there are toolbelts hanging out in the ANG side too, but at least in my MWS and my state I've seen some real leaders and good folks driving the bus.

 

[stonewall]

Delta,

I'm not sure why you addressed the post to me as this thread is kinda old. I just clicked on it to see what Albie had to say. At any rate, it sounds like y'all did the right thing, and it also sounds like the O-4 was out of line. And yes, I would've been tempted to do the mission, but without being there I can't say what I would or wouldn't have done.

And that was a great comment about the CHS Reserves! I also agree with Albie...the Guard rocks.

 

[angry tanker]

All of these posts are going in circles. The final say on a mission getting done safely is to the AC. Every reg is written to protect the AC. If he has a legit reason to scrub the mission, he can scrub it. No A**hole ADO can make him, or "get somebody else who can" by the regs. The problem comes from the oldheads not teaching the young guys more about the regs and giving them the info that allows them to tell that ADO to have a sh*t sandwich, sit the f*ck down, and solve the problem. It is easy to try and guilt a young eager pilot into bending rules or making the wrong decision cause they want to do the job. The best defense for them is we as the old head guys tell them. Next time you do a stage where you now they are bending the rules, try to get the word, especially to that you capt or even lt ac that looks like he is scared to death to make the wrong call. If he knows his regs, they will protect him. Good luck and fly safe.