C-5 crash video

[captdorn81]

I have heard all types of rumors from that the pilots walked away to they broke their backs and are in some bad shape does anyone know the truth?

 

[milplt]

Classification vs. privileged

Gorilla, not an attack - but , if you were in the military, it may have been a while since you were active you may have forgotten some of the finer admin points.

Just as Rampfreeze said - privileged is a liability thing - not a security thing. This information is completely releasable to every military pilot and anyone else who may benefit from a safety aspect by directly knowing the details. You said that it should have been posted to get everyone informed. Well, now the reverse will happen. Because we can't trust our people to treat privileged info with the proper attention, we will start to restrict who has that info. Written copies of the reports will become accountable and we will not be allowed to send electronic versions via unsecure means. In short, there will be aircrew who don't get this info because it wasn't as freely distributed as in the past.

As far as the civilians and non-military aircrew knowing the details, the AIB hid nothing and stated it was aircrew error - read AW&ST or Air Force times - I am sure that the AIB details were in both. There was absolutely no hiding of anything from the public.

I do have to respectfully disagree with your not agreeing with the classification statement. NEVER has it been appropriate to divulge information just because you disagreed with the classification. If there is an inappropriate classification, go to the OPR (or whatever the classifying source is called these days) and request a change of classification - but you could never, and still can't, decide to disregard a classification just because you didn't see the point of it.

I saw you previously had a 58 FS patch as an avatar, so you may have had some sort of association with that squadron. I flew in that unit, and breaches of security were treated very harshly (and very immediately). Some people still do take these things seriously.

 

[Gorilla]

Milplt, it was a 58th TFS patch. Note the "T". Long time ago.

Please understand, my objections here began because of certain attitudes displayed. They were something like "how DARE these pilots be subject to scrutiny."

I've been civilian a long time now, and I have seen my airline compadres absolutely crucified, over and over, the moment the slightest thing goes wrong. When AA crashed at Cali, within days, the newspapers shrieked "ALCOHOL FOUND IN DEAD PILOTS BODIES!!!!" Later, it was determined that the alcohols were the result of decay.

The double standard was and remains annoying. Liability is not an issue here. There was no civilian property damage or injury.

It's a bit childish of me to wish the same ill treatment on mil pilots. I'd rather have all accidents on both sides treated with a measure of dignity.

I also know how to keep a secret. And I'll do so regardless of my personal wishes. That doesn't change the fact that I find the whole secrecy thing with a cargo aircraft accident puzzling. I never advocated the release of any material that is priveledged or classified... I simply said I don't agree with this particular classification, in this case.

 

[talondriver]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but I was told this jet had the new avionics upgrade and the only one familiar with it was one of the pilots. I can see how they didn't notice obvious (to us) buffoonery with what engines were being used during the approach if their crosscheck was slower due to the glass. In parts of the tape you can here someone talking about something new.

 

[TankerDriver]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but I was told this jet had the new avionics upgrade and the only one familiar with it was one of the pilots. I can see how they didn't notice obvious (to us) buffoonery with what engines were being used during the approach if their crosscheck was slower due to the glass. In parts of the tape you can here someone talking about something new.

I'm sure they all had to be familiar with it. I'm assuming they had to be qualified to fly an aircraft with a new cockpit. In the 135, we have new avionics also (Block 40/40.2). We go through Block 40 qualification through our training department in our mission qual phase, which consists of about 10 hours of CBT's, 3 sims and 3 flights. Everyone goes through it. If you're not qualified, you don't fly Block 40 aircraft. Now, being qualified and being proficient are two different things. We're only required to log one sortie per semester (6 months) in the Block 40 aircraft. I don't know if the C-5 guys go through the same type of in house qualification training as we do for the new avionics (I would assume they do), but depending on how frequently or infrequently pilots are flying the "new" aircraft, I could see someone having a brain fart.

 

[talondriver]

I'm sure they all had to be familiar with it. I'm assuming they had to be qualified to fly an aircraft with a new cockpit. In the 135, we have new avionics also (Block 40/40.2). We go through Block 40 qualification through our training department in our mission qual phase, which consists of about 10 hours of CBT's, 3 sims and 3 flights. Everyone goes through it. If you're not qualified, you don't fly Block 40 aircraft. Now, being qualified and being proficient are two different things. We're only required to log one sortie per semester (6 months) in the Block 40 aircraft. I don't know if the C-5 guys go through the same type of in house qualification training as we do for the new avionics (I would assume they do), but depending on how frequently or infrequently pilots are flying the "new" aircraft, I could see someone having a brain fart.

Let me re-phrase...one was more familiar with the glass than the others. Supposedly, this jet was coming from Robins and the pilot with more time using the new stuff was from there but I'm not sure it was the delivery sortie. I'm also not familiar with how intense the upgrade is.

 

[Gorilla]

I never advocated the release of any material that is priveledged or classified... I simply said I don't agree with this particular classification, in this case.

I feel like I need to rephrase this: If a document, electronic or paper, is classified or priveleged in any way by the "powers", then I will personally join in with a baseball bat on anyone who leaks it, regardless of my personal feelings on the particular document.

If they classify a list of the cases of potato chips consumed by Navy pilots while on cruise, and it gets leaked, I'll condemn the leaker, but wonder why the heck the list was classified in the first place.

I think much of this entire C5 episode can be attributed to what I call "check airman syndrome." CAS is nothing more than an overload of instructors/supervisors packed into a small space. I've flown with many Check Airmen; most are superb, but every so often you'll see one do something so bizarre and stupid, it boggles your mind.

 

[satpak77]

just back from a trip...

God Bless the military for protecting our nation and our freedom. I have friends that are current or ex-mil pilots and all good dudes.

With that said, we are all human (last time I checked) and this was a classic human factors pile-up error chain.

For us to not learn from it, well, stupid on us.

I hope the pilots get a speedy recovery and hopefully the Air Force sees this for what it is and does the right thing and does not hammer these guys.

later

 

[Steve]

the link is now dead. here is a new one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vzDV88FsRU

 

[71KILO]

Number two shut down in flight due to reverser unlock light

After bringing the throttles back in desenct, PF somehow swapped #2 and 3

He put the dead engine throttle up and left the good engine at idle.

Perfectly good airplane before the pilot error

Sure glad they all lived!

That's all I'm willing to say now that the video is out there.