But Dave will leave if we vote in a union....

[pilotyip]

Yet I've done nothing as you suggest... you are simply trying to save face.....


But let's be direct: Are all Americans worthy of a pension, education and healthcare, or only those who sign up to kill other people? (that is what you did to get your pension, education and healthcare, correct? It is either truth or it is not)


Yes or no?

Not talking about that stuff at, again shows how you just don't get it, I refereed to 70's because back in the 70's you tended to hide your status a vet, especially one who served in VN. I had people tell me I was crazy for serving, or how they felt sorry for me, or shocked that I actually volunteered in 1965 to serve. But now days it is cool to be a vet, we try to honor are vets, but some people like you are still back in the 70's. See this is not my problem, but it does seem to be your problem.

My fellow retired veterans and I earned ours. We worked hard and made personal and financial sacrifices in exchange for them. Me and my family lived just above the poverty level for most of my military career. It was a paycheck to paycheck existance for the first 15 years. I didn't gross more than $30K until the last 4 years. When you add in the deployments, frequent moves and 24/7/365 duty requirements it's a tough row to hoe. Shakespeare is enviously rolling over in his grave.

You know this stuff coming from Rez is almost an honor, I would not a person with that perverted sense of what is correct to do anything but hold me in disdain.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

All Americans are worthy of pensions, education and healthcare. Where you and I differ is whether or not each American should earn those things or be entitled to them.

Actually, afforded the opportunity to earn those social safety nets... Right? Not everyone is Military material for one reason or the other... what of them?

My fellow retired veterans and I earned ours.

I never said you didn't. The issue is.... the ability to even have the option.

We worked hard and made personal and financial sacrifices in exchange for them.

You had an opportunity to do so and took it. Great. What about the guy that doesn't have the opportunity or doesn't want to be a warrior?

Me and my family lived just above the poverty level for most of my military career. It was a paycheck to paycheck existance for the first 15 years. I didn't gross more than $30K until the last 4 years. When you add in the deployments, frequent moves and 24/7/365 duty requirements it's a tough row to hoe.

It is a tough row... shouldn't all Americans have an opportunity to at least have a tough row to hoe? I am not suggesting an entitlement but the option as you did, to earn a pension, education and retirement through other means than military service.

Do you believe that corporations have the right to default on their obligations to workers pensions?

I look at my retirement check as deferred compensation for the low income and hardships I put up with while on active duty. IMO I earned every dime of it and I really don't give a flying fcku how you 'feel'. I did, however, have the priviledge of defending your right to speak your mind. Oh the irony! You get to be who you are and safely espouse your knucklehead ideas because guys like me and Yip stepped up and defended the very society you deplore. Shakespeare is enviously rolling over in his grave.

Classic.... your service to defend the consititution and freedom through bombs = democracy all while you are the arbitor of my right to speak is laughable and devalues your position.

Again... back to the start of this.... shouldn't all Americans have the option as you did to work hard and sacrifice and earn every penny of their deferred compensation in the form of a pension.... or do you have to only join the global presence of the US Military to get that....???

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not talking about that stuff at, again shows how you just don't get it, I refereed to 70's because back in the 70's you tended to hide your status a vet, especially one who served in VN. I had people tell me I was crazy for serving, or how they felt sorry for me, or shocked that I actually volunteered in 1965 to serve. But now days it is cool to be a vet, we try to honor are vets, but some people like you are still back in the 70's. See this is not my problem, but it does seem to be your problem.

If we are going to honor vets then we need to also recognize the horrors of war and not scrub and santize the truth....

Seems like you are proud that you served... good for you... do you need others to validate your life choices or are you content with yourself?

You know this stuff coming from Rez is almost an honor, I would not a person with that perverted sense of what is correct to do anything but hold me in disdain.

How would you know what is correct, when you don't have all the facts.....

 

[Caveman]

It is a tough row... shouldn't all Americans have an opportunity to at least have a tough row to hoe? I am not suggesting an entitlement but the option as you did, to earn a pension, education and retirement through other means than military service.

Every American already has that opportunity, but too many of them don't take advantage of it. We all make choices. Collectively we should not be held responsible for somebody else's poor choices or lack of planning. I'm more than willing to offer a helping hand when misfortune deals a setback. I will not sit back and let you and others like you force me to coddle those folks that won't help themselves.

Do you believe that corporations have the right to default on their obligations to workers pensions?

No, I don't. If I had my way pension plans would be mandated by law to be 100% funded 100% of the time and if a company filed BK the pension plans would get their money before any other creditor.

Classic.... your service to defend the consititution and freedom through bombs = democracy all while you are the arbitor of my right to speak is laughable and devalues your position.

I didn't arbitrate anything. You can say whatever the hell you want any time you want. You're still misguided and wrong.

Again... back to the start of this.... shouldn't all Americans have the option as you did to work hard and sacrifice and earn every penny of their deferred compensation in the form of a pension.... or do you have to only join the global presence of the US Military to get that....???

Yes and they already have that option via a multitude of choices. You seem to think it must come from a government source. The fact my former employer is the federal government is irrelevant. It was a job that I was compensated for. That's a far cry from being an entitlement or social program.

Get a clue Rez. The government owes you nothing in the form of money, food, health care or housing. That's your responsibility. All the government is responsible for is a level playing field, the opportunity to live freely and a safe place in which to do it. If there are folks that can't make it because of a lack of physical and/or mental ability we'll help them out. Let Darwin take care of the rest.

 

[Caveman]

Wow.....talk about thread creep. My apologies to the OP.

 

[pilotyip]

If we are going to honor vets then we need to also recognize the horrors of war and not scrub and santize the truth....

Seems like you are proud that you served... good for you... do you need others to validate your life choices or are you content with yourself?

How would you know what is correct, when you don't have all the facts.....

my life is well validated by your posts.

 

[Redmeat]

Where does this come from, all the Comair pilots I have interviewed over the last few months, who now look at USA Jet DA-20 seat as a better career move than Comair.

Since this thread has been severely hijacked already...

As a rule, Willow Run airport has two types of pilots. Those that start their careers there and will be leaving YIP in the rear-view without ever looking back and those that have gone back-wards in aviation and end up there.

The reasons one 'ends up there', with the exception of furlough, are rarely good ones...and typically say something more about the pilot rather than the company that they came from.

The one exception to this on the airport is Kalitta Air because of the aircraft and the schedule and possible upgrade time-frame. I can see why that job would be attractive to some folks that come from a job that would be typically viewed as a level above.

Ask those Comair pilots how they like flying a 40 year-old jet with a full size David Clark (all the noise insulation stripped to save weight), pager surgically attached to hip, crash-pad life in beautiful Ypsi/Belleville...a year from now...

My money says Comair will be lookin' pretty good to them in hindsight...

 

[pilotyip]

As a rule, Willow Run airport has two types of pilots. Those that start their careers there and will be leaving YIP in the rear-view without ever looking back and those that have gone back-wards in aviation and end up there.

well said, but many of us never planned on working for a non-sked at KYIP. No one puts on their dream sheet when they get their pilto certificate "My dream job is a non-sked at KYIP" Yes our QOL does sux, we even start out our company orientation with that side, if a pilot has specific idea of QOL that do not match JUS, then that pilot should not apply of a job at JUS. As far as work rules goes, everything ins writing, pilot policy handbook is issued to every pilot defining work rules, JUS ensures all pilot are home on their hard days off, no assigned working on days off, unless of course you want to break $100K by selling days off once you make Capt. But it is up to the pilot. Bidding for seats is defined, seniority is followed, never hired a Ca off the street since 1998. We love it when our pilot s move on to career jobs at SWA, FedEx, UPS, AT, JB, NJ etc But you have to go someplace to pay dues, and we think we are the best of the bottom feeders. BTW our furlouged UPS pilot is doing a fine job for us, and speaks highly of his experience.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

we think we are the best of the bottom feeders.

You can't make this stuff up!!! :laugh:

uke:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It is a tough row... shouldn't all Americans have an opportunity to at least have a tough row to hoe? I am not suggesting an entitlement but the option as you did, to earn a pension, education and retirement through other means than military service.

Every American already has that opportunity, but too many of them don't take advantage of it. We all make choices. Collectively we should not be held responsible for somebody else's poor choices or lack of planning. I'm more than willing to offer a helping hand when misfortune deals a setback. I will not sit back and let you and others like you force me to coddle those folks that won't help themselves.

Failed logic. It is not about choices... it is about options... available pensions have shrinked from 40% to about 16%, IIRC.

Are you saying that pensions gutted by Corp America were really just poor choices by workers...

You are a JB pilot right? Where is the JP pilot pension? Oh wait you don't give a shat cause you already got another pension right? So, if you value your pension what are you doing to ensure that JB pilots have a pension or a comparable retirement like you?

Do you believe that corporations have the right to default on their obligations to workers pensions?

No, I don't. If I had my way pension plans would be mandated by law to be 100% funded 100% of the time and if a company filed BK the pension plans would get their money before any other creditor.

Yet, that is what Corp America did.... funny how UAL tried to do that to its Canadian employees and the CA govt said no, but the Bush Admin said yes go screw the American worker....

So you are saying the govt owes the American worker something... right? Pension enforcement?

Classic.... your service to defend the consititution and freedom through bombs = democracy all while you are the arbitor of my right to speak is laughable and devalues your position.

I didn't arbitrate anything. You can say whatever the hell you want any time you want. You're still misguided and wrong.

Not very convincing... moving along...

Again... back to the start of this.... shouldn't all Americans have the option as you did to work hard and sacrifice and earn every penny of their deferred compensation in the form of a pension.... or do you have to only join the global presence of the US Military to get that....???

Yes and they already have that option via a multitude of choices. You seem to think it must come from a government source. The fact my former employer is the federal government is irrelevant. It was a job that I was compensated for. That's a far cry from being an entitlement or social program.

Wow... where does this come from? And how hypocritical...

First off... WHERE DOES YOUR PENSION COME FROM? Government? You even try to pathetically disclaim yourself from your own hypocrisy and try it make it sound like I am advocating an entitlement program. And yet your pension, is a social program... don't think for a minute that it is a result of your rugged individualism!! LOL!!

Second off, where are these MULTITUTDE OF CHOICES in America? WHERE?

Get a clue Rez. The government owes you nothing in the form of money, food, health care or housing.

Yet, here you are expecting a something from govt each month. Funny how that is ok for you, but for me and other Americans we are just wanting to suck on the nanny state teat.

And earlier you stated:

If I had my way pension plans would be mandated by law to be 100% funded 100% of the time and if a company filed BK the pension plans would get their money before any other creditor.

So you are saying that govt does owe me something: pension enforcement. Right?

That's your responsibility.

All I am suggesting is the opportunity to have the responsibility.. JUST LIKE YOU. Funny, how you state the Corporations should be obligated to fund worker pensions, but you probably voted for Bush who allowed Airlines to default on that commitment and responsibility (so much for "conservative values" of integrity).

All I am suggesting is the govt enforce that pension remain solid and you are pouting that the govt owes me nothing.... LOL

All the government is responsible for is a level playing field,

Now that I have schooled you, are US pensions a level playing field? Why does Socialist Canada protect its worker pensions but Freedom America defaults on its workers pensions? Why do you believe that the govt should protect worker pensions (socialist!!) but you support the destruction of US pensions (fascist!!) Help me out here?

the opportunity to live freely and a safe place in which to do it.

Now, you are just two faced.... I would LOVE the opportunity.... WHERE IS IT? Where are the opportunities RIGHT NOW, to work somewhere and get a pension? And if it is good enough for one why not all?

If there are folks that can't make it because of a lack of physical and/or mental ability we'll help them out. Let Darwin take care of the rest.

Classic... basically what you are saying is....

UP YOURS, I GOT MINE........

Enjoy your pension.....

 

[Caveman]

I started to respond and then deleted it. It's a waste of bandwidth. It finally dawned on me if you think military retirement is on par with welfare we have no common basis to even begin a conversation.

Rez you're an ignorant idiot. That's not a pejorative, it's a description. You're ill-informed and misguided. Again, not a personal attack but a description. You really don't have the faintest idea how things work. Your head is full of liberal talking points that have no basis in reality.

The part that really scares me is you're allowed to vote. God help us.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Your reply is a prime example of failed logic, failed debate and a poor attempt to save ego.....

I started to respond and then deleted it. It's a waste of bandwidth. It finally dawned on me if you think military retirement is on par with welfare we have no common basis to even begin a conversation.

Negative. Did you not read my post or are you simply incensed that you didn't get an expected blanket approval for being military? (this isn't a MIL issue, this is a govt pension issue in that it is good enough for you, but not good enough for non govt workers)

Rez you're an ignorant idiot. That's not a pejorative, it's a description.

Yet you don't seem to be able to reply to my post subject matter.... if it is a waste of bandwidth (like you are really concerned about BW. ) then why do you continue to post not with reasoned logic but personal attacks? Do you have reasoned logic?

You're ill-informed and misguided. Again, not a personal attack but a description. You really don't have the faintest idea how things work. Your head is full of liberal talking points that have no basis in reality.

Says who? You? I asked you specfic questions.

1. What are you doing to help JB pilots get a retirement plan like yours?

2. Why did you vote for Bush TWICE, when you believe pensions should be (socialist) protected by governments like Canada?

3. Why do you get a pension, unquestioned and protected by the US Govt, but the rest of us are subjected to market forces?
​

The part that really scares me is you're allowed to vote. God help us.

If you really feel that way, then you must feel like a complete and bonafide jackass for putting yourself in harms way so that I may have that right to vote. Because I am sure that is why you signed up, right... to give people you don't agree with the right to exercise democracy. Or did you sign up to squash people that don't agree with you?



Anyway, if you want to pout and be angry... just go away... if you want a mature debate without personal attacks then answer question 1-3.

 

[pilotyip]

You can't make this stuff up!!! :laugh:

uke:

you mean we agree on something?, long line of people wanting to work, must mean something. YIP is what you make of it, for a native Michigander who has lived all over the US I kinda like it. No hurricanes, no floods, a couple tornadoes once in while, and ice and snow. However, in Michigan ice and snow is not really a big deal like it is down south, they are equipped to handle it. The season change is something you really enjoy, unlike living in FL. where you go Ho Hum another beautiful day, so what. In Michigan, people call in sick on beautiful days. Flying out of YIP will make you one of the best instrument pilots in the country, YIP ranks up with SEA for the number of IFR days. In YIP you will learn the real meaning of clean airplane, deicing is a way of life you get really good at understanding holdover time. At YIP you will develop flying skills that allow you move onto your career destination, even if you do not care for the area like some guys. It gives them the resume fluff to move to their next job. We all pay our dues in some way; YIP is only one way. So some other people must have found YIP is an all right place to spend some time. How many major airports are there in the country where you can live 10 minutes from the parking lot on an acre of land for less than 100K? Where else can you still get one dollar fifty drafts at places like the Wedge? As I said at the start YIP is what you make of it, some people say it is OK, others do not like it here and do not apply. Simple choices.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

you mean we agree on something?, long line of people wanting to work, must mean something. YIP is what you make of it, for a native Michigander who has lived all over the US I kinda like it. No hurricanes, no floods, a couple tornadoes once in while, and ice and snow. However, in Michigan ice and snow is not really a big deal like it is down south, they are equipped to handle it. The season change is something you really enjoy, unlike living in FL. where you go Ho Hum another beautiful day, so what. In Michigan, people call in sick on beautiful days. Flying out of YIP will make you one of the best instrument pilots in the country, YIP ranks up with SEA for the number of IFR days. In YIP you will learn the real meaning of clean airplane, deicing is a way of life you get really good at understanding holdover time. At YIP you will develop flying skills that allow you move onto your career destination, even if you do not care for the area like some guys. It gives them the resume fluff to move to their next job. We all pay our dues in some way; YIP is only one way. So some other people must have found YIP is an all right place to spend some time. How many major airports are there in the country where you can live 10 minutes from the parking lot on an acre of land for less than 100K? Where else can you still get one dollar fifty drafts at places like the Wedge? As I said at the start YIP is what you make of it, some people say it is OK, others do not like it here and do not apply. Simple choices.

Spare me the geo weather lesson gramps! I've flown the Great Lakes in winter SINGLE PILOT including YIP. When I went to the airlines and flew into DTW LAV Dump over YIP was SOP on the Mizar3. Give me your house coordinates and I'll drop some solid blue juice on my next trip....

 

[pilotyip]

Spare me the geo weather lesson gramps! I've flown the Great Lakes in winter SINGLE PILOT including YIP. When I went to the airlines and flew into DTW LAV Dump over YIP was SOP on the Mizar3. Give me your house coordinates and I'll drop some solid blue juice on my next trip....

I see you are still agreeing with me, you have to get over this, you flew in YIP and area after being a bottom feeder, although not the best of the bottom feeders, you moved on in your career.