Bush is teaching Labor a lesson!!!!!!!!!

[bart]

The situation that UAL is of their own doing. They made the decisions. The owners of the firm have run it into the ground. It is not my responsibility to pay for their mistakes with the money the government siezes from me. Following your line of thinking tells me that the government should pony up for my losses in the stock market... Hey it wasn't my fault the market went down, I should get paid with your money for my mistake.

It is only logical given your argument...

 

[TurboS7]

The only economic expansion that happened during the Clinton administration was consumer credit via VISA/MASTERCARD.They stole money from the military to balance the budget, as far as I am concerned they compromised our national security so they would look good.

 

[Soupbone]

I am honored HawkerF/O!
That you would address me personnally is touching. After all, you can't help but make personal attacks on people when they say something that doesn't agree with your views. Typical idiot that has to slam the person first without making his case and letting his defense say enough.
1st don't get me wrong either. I realize that Clinton had some great economic views, but what amazes me is that some people forget that NOTHING gets to the Presidents desk without going through Congress first. So all those great things Clinton did, had to be approved by Congress first. That is for another time...something else I want to discuss with you.
Your great economic time came with a price...the military. Democrates love to gut the military to advance there worthless social causes. As you are not smart enough, let me fill you in...Reagan knew that only a strong military would end the cold war...obviously he was right. Carter gutted the military and Reagan had to make up for it, unfortunately at the cost of a huge deficit. Once again a democrat took over (Clinton) and gutted the military, so unfortunately Bush has to fix it, which means a deficit. If we would quit this cycle and keep the military on an even budget (or course war not withstanding) then a moron like you would not blame Bush for the deficate. He is just trying to fix your old boys problems. (not to get into here, but don't forget Clinton did nothing about terrorism for 8 years!!!!!!)

Soup
PS... politics are always fun to talk about on a pilot forum, always appreciate your threads Timebuilder

 

[Timebuilder]

It sounds to me like you are saying the republican Alan Greenspan sat down with Clinton, and had a heart to heart talk about how to do something a Republican would do. I don't have the legislation in front of me, nor do I know the problems that the republicans in office at that time might have had with the bill.


Clinton did his homework, found out that the national mood was changing, and listened to Greenspan. Of course, as you alluded to, the economy was poised for expansion all on its own, and this was a single ingredient. The fact that the economy was ready for expansion was a part of the normal cycle of business. The important thing to remember from a political standpoint is the amount of arm-twisting and sweet talking Clinton had to do to get this package passed by a congress dominated by his own party. Most democrats didn't like this much more than the republicans, apparently.

After the reforms of the package started taking place, the market went through the roof. Record economic times, lowest unemployment in history(Peace time). Alan Greenspan said that economic package had a signifigant impact on the state of the US economy.

In other words, Alan Greenspan was saying that the plan the he had advocated had been a success. No surprise there. It is also important to note that no one has ever taxed or spent themselves out of bad economic times. Only tax reductions have been able to have a positive influence.

how many times do you recall during the 2000 election the Republicans bringing up the economy? NOT ONCE!!!

I thought that's what the tax cuts were about. When taxes are reduced for the people that pay the most, the effect on the economy is undeniable and positive.

I hope you aren't making the mistake of linking this economy to GWB, any more than you would link the economic spurt directly to the Clinton, I'm sorry, the Greenspan stimulus package that you described.

 

[bart]

The greatest thing Clinton accomplished:

The greatest thing Clinton accomplished in office was to get Americans to agree blowjobs are not sex. Period.

Everything else was built on Reagan and Bush I 's legacy. GWB inherited Clinton's legacy. The next president will reap the benefits of GWB's labors. That is the way it works.

 

[cocknbull]

HawkerF/O

Do you remember the era of good feeling? It happeneed just before the the great depression. The 90's were nearly the same.

I will admit the economy is much better thean it was then. However this economic stimulus package is not the reason for yhe economic boom. Infact the stimulus package won't have any effect on the economy untill hmmmmmmm now. The real heros of the economic boom in the ninties are the veterans of the cold war and Ronald Reagan. Most of the technology advances came from 70's and 80's military projects and the fact that Reagan lowered interest rates to atract more investors. Hence companies grew and started to offer new and exciting products. Unfortunately the stimulus package only offered a bunch of .com bust companies. These companies attracted alot of investors quick. Unfortunately it was a bust and this bust has brought alot of good companies down with it. I.E cisco systems... to name one.

 

[Soupbone]

It is just unfortunately that we have a lot of people (Hawker obivously being one of them) that completely believe whatever the liberal media tells them.

 

[EagleRJ]

Believe it or not, when you are considering presidential candidates, there are considerations besides friendliness towards labor.

It's my firm belief that if Gore had been elected president, we would now be cleaning up from our second or third 9/11, and President Gore would now be threatening even harsher economic sanctions and more Tomahawks if the Taliban didn't cough up OBL. The previous administration was risk-adverse and poll-driven, and did little more than ride the wave of economic success built in the '80s and early '90s. It's obvious by the trouncing the Democrats suffered last month that the American people are starting to lose faith in their leadership.

I'm a proud ALPA member and labor supporter, and I'm proud to have voted for George W. Bush.

 

[Publishers]

politics

Sometimes you guys give one individual way too much credit for what they are able to do. Mostly it comes from the ignorance that we are going to simplify this complex issue and focus blame on someone.

Folks there is enough blame here for everyone to take some.

Let's start with labor that wants to manage, management that did not, terrorists that want to fly except into things, markets that want performance now, planning later, passengers that want full service at LCC prices, etc. etc.

A president that wants to interfere or didn't. That is well down the list.

 

[AlphEcho]

Here is something interesting that I heard today. United Airlines has about 1800 flights a day, and they accomplish this with about 80,000 employees. Northwest Airlines runs 1500 flights a day, but they only have 45,000 employees! I'm all for people getting and keeping their jobs, and earning as much as the market will support in the process, but if this is true (and since the source is an extremely reliable airline employee I assume it is), it is no surprise that UAL's loan guarantee was promptly refused! Or am I missing something here? At any rate it would seem pretty ludicrous to blame President Bush!

 

[Typhoon1244]

If you're a US citizen who pays taxes and you voted for any Democrap, then you're incapable of making sound decisions.

"Democrap." Very clever! How long did it take you to think of that?

All of this corporate greed crap came about during Slick Willie's term. Bush is the one layin down the law.

Oh yes, you're absolutely right. There was no corporate greed in America until Bill C. got into office. Right.

C'mon, cocknbull, you're got to be smarter than that!

If you're uneducated, on welfare, or a college teacher who smoked alot of weed in the sixties, then you're most likely a Democrat.

See, this is one of my problems with far right-wingers...and far-left wingers, for that matter. There's no in-between with you. If you're a Democrat then you must be a minority pot-head college liberal. If you're a Republican then you must be a white greedy gun-nut conservative. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but life is not that simple.

You act as if Bush could have saved Eastern. Eastern was doomed the day Lorenzo landed in Miami. Lorenzo is Harvard educated. Harvard is the most Liberal school in the country. Lorenzo's tactics were not Republican or Democrat they were just wrong...Bush Jr. would have had Lorenzo in court for insider trading after the Pan Am-National deal.

Bush the First was the first president in a long, long time not to approve mediation in the Eastern-IAM problem. He also got a tremendous amount of campaign money from Frank Lorenzo. That's really all I need to say about that issue.

Cocknbull, are you trying to change my mind, or what? I've already said I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I happen to be party-less at the moment. At this stage in our nation's development, the Democratic party is far to stupid and the Republican party is far to evil for me to support either one.

 

[cl-65link]

For those who doubt the Republican party's view of labor groups and unions, I suggest you read Flying the Line I and II. Volume II , in one chapter, specifically deals with the Eastern situation in the 80"s, and President Bush's failure(ignorance, callousness, whatever) to form a PEB to investigate solutions to Eastern's problems. Now i'm no liberal, I grew up in the second most republican county/district in the country. Democrats never even ran for offices like judge,sheriff,etc. But, if you are a pilot in this country and belong to a union, the Democrats are much more likely to lend a hand than the Republicans. After all, who proposed McCain-Lott?

 

[Timebuilder]

Funny you shoud mention those two. Despite their high visibility in the republican party, each one has failed to impress me as being republicans.

In fact, John McCain seems more like a democrat every time he opends his mouth.

What do you make of that?

 

[Toecutter]

Typhoon and Hawker,

Thank god I know there are at least two other people in the world that aren't brainwashed. I've read all the posts on this thread and I have come to some conclusions.

About Bush being moral and patriotic, well I guess if you consider snorting coke, getting hauled in for a DUI, and then going AWOL from your Guard unit for over a year, yeah that's moral. What I still can`t figure out is how he got in so quickly with a two year waiting list, and how he got his commission without going to OCS. By the way, he flew F-102s not F-4s. A plane that was not being used in Vietnam at the time. www.awolbush.com

As far as a being military friendly, I guess you can say republicans are military friendly, just not to its members. It won't be long until you see all of that money for pay raises go to pay for the war instead of the soldiers and their families. I noticed that army aviators had their bonus taken away right after the election. I would say it won't be long before tricare benefits and retirement are next on the chopping block.

I noticed that the people that seem the support the republicans the most are the people that don't really "work" for a living. Timebuilder, you say you make only five dollars an hour. I bet you live in a 500,000 dollar house, right? It really bothers me when people are out of or going to be out of work, people that work to pay the rent and put food on the table are going to be out on the street, and have people that live on trust funds say to them, hey, thats just how the system works, I don't see what the big fuss is all about?

Bush 1 did have something to do with Eastern going down. The pilots honored the mechanics strike to show their support, they were also counting on a federal judge to "order" them(pilots) back to work and keep the airline going. Bush stepped in and said no. Remember Bushwacked?

I notice that the biggest talkers about going to war are people that have "civilian" in their profile.(military school does not count) You wrap yourselves in the blanket of freedom that others provide. If you what to talk big about going to war and killing people or being killed , I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand your post.

OK,I feel better now.

 

[Dieterly]

Any comments? Didn't think so...