Burke Lakefront

[lakefrontpilot]

Burke Lakefront is my home airport. I fly with T&G (no hard comments-- I read what you people had to say in "Has anyone heard about Cleveland Airsports") and I love the airport. As far as I know, the service is great; my instructor called for fuel because the previous lesson didn't quite feel like calling for it, and a fuel truck pulled up within 5 minutes. I don't know much about the fees, since I do rent.

The airport is under construction, and has been since the last frost of the season. But now I am kind of confuzzled... how do you get to the '24' end of the airport if both runways are open and in use, and taxiway Gulf is closed northeast of Charlie? If you're not familiar with the layout, check out www.airnav.com/airport/KBKL or http://www.naco.faa.gov/content/naco/online/airportdiagrams/05370AD.PDF for the airport diagram. They are also trying to put in another runway, not paralell with the others. The city is to the SSW-WSW, and the airport's runway could only go in the 2-20 direction, which could only put the takeoff/landing zone right inside the terminal area and downtown. Any thoughts?

-Jason

 

[EatSleepFly]

If using 24L, you'll back taxi. If using 24R, you'll back taxi down 24L to Echo, then over to 24R and either take off there, or back taxi on 24R for full length.

At least, thats what they were doing last time I was there.

 

[groundpointsix]

I was up there last week. 6R-24L is closed and is being used as a taxiway. So if they happen to be using 24R for departures you will taxi on the closed runway. Lineguy said this is how it has been for a few months and he didn't know when when it would reopen. Didn't mention anything about a new runway, though I didn't ask.

 

[lakefrontpilot]

they did have 24L closed for takeoffs and landings. it was used for taxi only. now it is used for both, which to me seems like a rather screwy idea. the lights on 24L are out of service anyway. the joys of cleveland...

 

[BankAccount=0$]

Just a comment on BKL. I did my first flight out of there in 94', and i have never been in there since that they didn't have something (ie. taxiway,runway part of ramp) closed for whatever reason. You'll get great x-wind practice there....like every landing , and it gets a bit cold in the winter too.......

 

[UnstableAviator]

Last I was there about a month ago we did a back taxi down 24R to taxiway E. We were in a C-172, so of course we accepted an intersection departure.

 

[oldnewbie]

Just thought I'd add my off-topic .02. I'm a long-time lurker, rare poster, but I had a ball flying into BKL. A group of friends decided to have a mini fly-in there a few months ago, and flew in from Illinois late at night. Arrived about 1:30 in the morning, Bravo controllers were exceptional, and the folks at Million-Aire couldn't have been more courteous. (For those of us in Illinois, it was a pleasure to fly into a lakefront airport that wasn't covered in bulldozers.)

 

[minitour]

Probably a stupid but kind of related question...

...if you leave the Bravo to land at BKL (say for a TnG)...do you have to be cleared back into the bravo (like if they're using the 24s) after the go? Is there enough room to make the X-wind turn before the B? Do you coordinate that with Approach/Clnc? I'm dying to take my fiance' up there for dinner...hear the restaurant is great and I'm sure access to Tower City is good too...any tips on that? (can I catch the RTA?)

Thanks in advance
-mini

 

[minitour]

Once you leave you need a clearance to get back in.

The B shelf over the airport is 3000 feet, so if you stay under it you are fine.

A few miles to the west, a 1900 foot shelf starts.

So if you stay under that, you are also fine.

But if you want to go back into it, then you need to be cleared.

(If I'm wrong please let me know and don't crucify me too badly)

...thats what I was thinking...

does the same thing apply to being vectored out of the Bravo...
say you were cleared into the Cleveland B on the east side coming out of YNG and you were going to MDW VFR (heh) now you get vectored way the hell to the south down by MFD and you're out of the Bravo...I'm still talking to Cleveland, but I need to ask him to come back in again? or its okay since I'm talkin to him?

I'd think I'd ask to be safe, but I don't wanna tie up busy air time for something stupid.

-mini

 

[350DRIVER]

Probably a stupid but kind of related question...

...if you leave the Bravo to land at BKL (say for a TnG)...do you have to be cleared back into the bravo (like if they're using the 24s) after the go? Is there enough room to make the X-wind turn before the B? Do you coordinate that with Approach/Clnc? I'm dying to take my fiance' up there for dinner...hear the restaurant is great and I'm sure access to Tower City is good too...any tips on that? (can I catch the RTA?)

Thanks in advance
-mini

If you are working the pattern you will not be handed off to CLE departure, you will remain with BKL tower for all circuits. Hornblowers is worth the trip, Circa is even better but you will need to take a cab to get to 6th st. You can catch the RTA but the walk to Tower City is not that far OR ask Millionaire to give you a ride in the van and they will.


enjoy,

3 5 0

 

[minitour]

Thanks for the help all...confirms what I was thinking...its amazing how a bad day on the golf course will drive out stupid questions

-mini

 

[Iceman21]

Flying out of BKL is fun. Be careful though if you go out of there IFR in a piston single. If you put "No open water" on your flight plane 9 out of 10 times they don't get it or follow it. Your departure heading will be 360 up to 3000ft. They will take you as far out as they can before turning you, somewhere in the neighborhood of 5-7 miles.

Coming back in from the west they will descend you down to 2200 ft and take you out about 4-5 miles on a 040 heading and then send you direct to Burke. Not that I would know from experience or anything.

All in all CLE controllers are very accomodating about getting into and out of the Class B airspace, unlike ORD guys, but you can understand why.

 

[Jmmccutc]

Probably a stupid but kind of related question...

...if you leave the Bravo to land at BKL (say for a TnG)...do you have to be cleared back into the bravo (like if they're using the 24s) after the go? Is there enough room to make the X-wind turn before the B? Do you coordinate that with Approach/Clnc? I'm dying to take my fiance' up there for dinner...hear the restaurant is great and I'm sure access to Tower City is good too...any tips on that? (can I catch the RTA?)

Thanks in advance
-mini

the food's ok...but with in walking distance of BKL like 350 saidyou have Tower City, and you also have the Jake, and the Dawg Pound...i've never been up there with the pourpose of "sight seeing" most of the time it was with the CFII shooting approaches

 

[Jmmccutc]

All in all CLE controllers are very accomodating about getting into and out of the Class B airspace

most of the time...let's not give 'em too much credit...

 

[rattler]

There is an RTA stop at the Rock and Roll hall of fame/ Science Center. It is the waterfront line and goes to Tower City. $1.25. If you hop off at the East Bank Flats stop you are 2 blocks from West 6th street. Circo Zibo is gone. They departed in the early summer. That building is now a Brazilian steak house called Brasa. Why would you go to Tower City anyway? There are lots of good places to eat in the Warehouse district (W.6th) and the Flats. I would recomend Liquid-Tapas, Sushi Rock-Sushi in the Warehouse district or Shooters, Rock Bottom or the River's Edge in the Flats. And if you get to stay overnight Molson is always $1 at McCarthy's.

 

[350DRIVER]

ok ...?

Circa Restaurant is still open to the best of my knowledge, never even heard of the one that you mentioned..

3 5 0

 

[minitour]

Why would you go to Tower City anyway?

Two reasons
1. I have some soon to be former co-workers that work there I'd like to see before I'm outies..
and...
2. Sadly, I think the only two ways to get my fiance' on a plane with me at the controls is going to be A. drugged, or B. with the promise of shopping...

...since I don't have access to anything good...

I thought I remembered the Jake being pretty close though, hopefully I can get up to a Tribe game before the wedding...haven't been there yet...

...as a follow up to that...how is it getting out of BKL after say 11:00 (after the game)?
Thanks!

-mini

 

[Nova]

...as a follow up to that...how is it getting out of BKL after say 11:00 (after the game)?
Thanks!

-mini

I went to a game years ago and flew out late at night with no problems. The tower is closed and I believe there was a security guard on duty that let us back onto the ramp.

 

[lakefrontpilot]

Crosswinds...

Yeah... you definately have a slight (yeah right) crosswind on occasion (haha). let's put it this way to anyone flying into there. the runways (6-24) are about 90º away from the usual wind. the wind usually comes from the ENE. definately brush up on your crosswind training before going into there. the wind, since it comes over the lake, is REALLY cold in the winter. i found out the hard way- i was only wearing wind pants and a light jacket because the weather was 55º and sunny. the airport was under a low overcast and was about 40º. i would say that it definately is worth the trip into there, however. there is a lot of stuff within walking distance. the USS Cod (a sub) is actually connected to the parking lot of the airport. look out for gulls year-round. i missed one once by about 6 inches. kinda freeky. some morons that like to follow the shoreline don't look for traffic. 200 feet was the distance on that one. the sad thing was that this was all within about 5 hours of flying time. i would definately reccommend going IFR or trying to get *and keep* a flight following. the lake does get too busy sometimes, so ATC will cut out the planes near the lake with flight following first. good airport, though.

Anyone coming to the airshow on September 4-6? How about erie this weekend?
Does anyone WORK at the airport? CGF and LNN either? I need a job at one of the three airports. Well... i need a job; want one there. Need to know if you can help by April '05.

Just a comment on BKL. I did my first flight out of there in 94', and i have never been in there since that they didn't have something (ie. taxiway,runway part of ramp) closed for whatever reason. You'll get great x-wind practice there....like every landing , and it gets a bit cold in the winter too.......

 

[Nova]

some morons that like to follow the shoreline don't look for traffic. 200 feet was the distance on that one.

He might have said the same thing about you. Both pilots should be responsible to see and avoid, don't expect the other pilots to do it for you.

I know a pet peeve of the controllers there is improper announcements of location. Most pilots arriving along the lakeshore announce that they are east of the airport. As anyone looking at a map can tell you that the shoreline is NE of the field.

Also be careful when working with CLE approach upon arrival. They have a tendency of handing you off to BKL much too late and a few times I've been within their airspace before the frequency change. The BKL tower was not too thrilled to have aircraft dumped right on top of them.

Lastly the crosswind isn't all that much trouble. Yes it's the prevailing wind but isn't that runway like 100' wide and thousands of feet long?

 

[lakefrontpilot]

Cleveland National Air Show

Has anyone been to the Cleveland International Air Show? I am going for my first time this year and was just wondering what it is like. I just got back from the first annual Erie Air Show and I thought it was cool. More 'homey' than I imagine Cleveland would be. Since it was the first one, I think it needed some fine tuning, but other than that... it was great. I guess that I am glad that Burke Lakefront (Cleveland Air Show's Base) is not a part 139 airport because in Erie, we had to stop the show every hour or so to let the airlines go by. Admission is cheap and I would definately look in to the box seating.

 

[lakefrontpilot]

Construction

Does anyone know exactly what they are doing at BKL? It has been under construction and I just wanted to know what they are doing. I thought, when I was there last, I saw the NE end of Gulf covered in asphalt. are they just resurfacing? I know that the ramp could definately use a new surface, especially around the storm drain (you'll know what I'm talking about if you have been there).

 

[lakefrontpilot]

does anyone read this thread anymore? i thought it was just starting to get good. whatever...

 

[Nova]

Perhaps your font wasn't big enough.

 

[FlynSuperD]

http://www.clevelandairshow.com/whats_new/faa_ruling.html



2004 May Be Last for Cleveland National Air Show!

FAA Revised Ruling Jeopardizes City's Labor Day Weekend Tradition

CLEVELAND, Ohio (Aug. 26, 2004) - The 2004 Cleveland National Air Show may mark the end to the city's premier aviation event at Burke Lakefront Airport and its $5 million-plus economic impact on the region.

The Federal Aviation Administration, which issues the necessary waivers for the event, notified the Air Show on Wednesday that the Air Show cannot go on at the same time as a regular season major sporting event in Cleveland.

"That interpretation will effectively cancel future Cleveland National Air Shows because of the unpredictable annual schedules of Major League Baseball, the National Football League and other professional sports. The resulting financial losses suffered by the Air Show would doom the event," said Executive Director Chuck Newcomb.

The 2004 event on Sept. 4, 5, 6 can go on because no professional sports are played during the day. However, if the FAA decision stands, the Twilight Show on Friday, Sept. 3, would be canceled.

The FAA's decision is especially perplexing because it issued a waiver under similar circumstances for Cleveland's event in 2003 as well as ones in St. Louis, Chicago and Seattle over the last 18 months, Newcomb said.

In addition, when the FAA met with Cleveland Air Show officials a month ago, the FAA indicated that the Friday, Sept. 3, Twilight Show could go on despite the Cleveland Browns pre-season game happening that same night. When the FAA notified the Air Show of the revision this week, it stated that while the Browns game was not a conflict, the Cleveland Indians schedule did present the a conflict.

"We certainly understand the need for homeland security in a post-9/11 world. What we cannot understand is why it's OK to have an Air Show within a half mile of Cleveland Browns Stadium but not OK to have it more than a mile away from Jacobs Field," Newcomb said.

If 2004 is the last year for the Cleveland National Air Show, the event's end will be memorable - with some of the most exciting Air Show acts and high-powered military demonstrations soaring above the expanse of ground displays that includes more than 50 aircraft.

 

[Nova]

God forbid the military fly near a TFR.

 

[lakefrontpilot]

Perhaps your font wasn't big enough.

Thanks, Nova... i'll keep that in mind

 

[lakefrontpilot]

((<<+=+>>))

 

[lakefrontpilot]

Cleveland National Air Show

Did anyone go to the airshow this weekend? i thought it was great. i went on saturday and had a pretty good time! So, any of you go?

 

[Nova]

No T-Birds or Blues = No go.