Bring back regulation?

viper548

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I wasn't around to see how things were under regulation. What would be the pros + cons of bringing back regulation?
 

eastflier

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I strongly believe that regulation would help this industry. It would stop the regionals from turing against themselves and prevent competition which would create an unlikely universal payscale.
 

dueguard1

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I believe we're all witnessing the "WALMARTIZATION" of the industry......this is based partly to the fact that the regular American trveler does not care about being cramped up in a tiny jet for 2+ hours just as long as they get there on the cheapest dime as possible...... If this were not true then how do you explain the success of Priceline, Travelocity, and other online fare discounters.......And if you want more to complain about just wait until biofuels start hitting the aerospace market..........Well hopefully by then I'll be an old man saying "Huh", or "What's that Sonny"?...Every time you call my Name!!lLOL
 

HoursHore

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Asking for Re-regulation is like asking for the Atom Bomb to be
un-invented, and just as useful.

Its been good for consumers and well managed airlines. Just as capitialism has been good for consumers and well managed companies.

Eventually, some cities are going to lose service from majors, and some one like Great Lakes will swoop in to re-provide service.

Like my 10th Grade economics teacher said, "the problem with capitialism is that it has losers." Not every one can win. And todays winners may be tomororrow's losers
 

DC8 Flyer

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HoursHore said:
Asking for Re-regulation is like asking for the Atom Bomb to be
un-invented, and just as useful.

Its been good for consumers and well managed airlines. Just as capitialism has been good for consumers and well managed companies.

Eventually, some cities are going to lose service from majors, and some one like Great Lakes will swoop in to re-provide service.

Like my 10th Grade economics teacher said, "the problem with capitialism is that it has losers." Not every one can win. And todays winners may be tomororrow's losers
I dont think capitalism is the right word to describe the airline industry. Im no civics expert, but I always understood capitilism as the ability/right of anyone to make and market a product for profit, thus the best product should reap the most rewards.

In this day and age with all the bankruptcy protection airlines dont have to provide the best product just the most imaginative way to "hide" or restructure debt. All things being even, there should only be 4 maybe 5 major airlines around today. SWA, JB, AirTran would, in my opinion, be the top 3 with 2 other Legacy carriers bringing up the rear. Of course there would be scattered commuters.

The government seems afraid to let the natural rules of economics to play themselves out for fear of loosing its only true nationwide mass transit system. Thats all the airlines have devolved into is an unfunded government mass transist system, just look at the ticket prices.

Again, Im no econ or civics expert, but I calls em likes I sees em.
 

labbats

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I'll apologize in advance for repeating on a message board what I've said to some of you in the real world, but here goes....

If a state isn't allowed to sell cigarettes for less than the state mandated minimum, what's to stop the government from assessing a quarterly report on city to city routes with a minimum rate to be charged? It would take a couple of accountants one day to do it and would be changed as fluctuations in fuel ebb and flow. Then you wouldn't have a bankrupt carrier like United taking out weekly full page ads in USA Today for $100 one way tickets across the entire continent.

It's death by capitalism, and when Delta and Northwest are forced into bankruptcy this fall, I hope and pray that it wakes up the government and forces some changes.
 

JimNtexas

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Save that Confederate Money!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back in regulation days, a handful of airlines flew half empty airplanes for people on expense accounts.

If we go back to that, the first thing we must do is fire about 40% of the pilots now employed in the airline industry.

Be careful what you wish for.

Of course the notion that some group of experts can set the price for anything is what has made the Soviet Union the economic superpower it is today.
 

labbats

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I'd rather struggle for a job that was worth the pitfalls then wallow in this regional pay and work rules for another thirty years.
 

StarChk20

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Something as big as regulation needs to happen, this industry has cut prices so far that it is strangeling itself. I hope it happens soon.
 

skyboat

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What we are seeing today is exactly what regulation was intended to do. Lower airfares and force uncompetitive and inefficient companies out of the marketplace. Unfortunately, I don't think that anyione really thought it would take this long. It really shows how entrenched the major airlines were in the marketplace. In the end, airfares will rise and the efficient and well run companies will be around to reap the beneits. Unfortunately a few more will go the way of Braniff, Pam Am and other early derugulation casualties

No one inteneded deregulation to be a benefit or a boon to airline employees. That was never a goal. It was strictly for the consumer and the economy.

Unfortunately, It has taken me this long to figure it out.
 
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BoilerUP

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The public (and Congress) would not tolerate the massive drop in service that a return to regulation would cause. Also, if there was re-regulation, you could kiss alot of mainline and most RJ jobs goodbye, as competition was highly curtailed and routes restricted.

That being said, I agree with labatts that a minimum fare per segment would not be a bad way to go. Oh wait, but that would be collusion...Crandall suggested that once and was laughed at. What should have happened is after the initial bailout following 9/11, the ATSB should have quit throwing money at airlines and Congress should have prevented multiple extensions in the process. I have many friends that work for Airways and United, but if they had been allowed to die a natural capitalistic financial death two-three years ago (as deregulation intended), there would not be the massive industry-wide problem we are having now. Government assistance to ailing airlines is the only reason deregulation, to this point, has failed.
 

tarp

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Deregulation.

Now there's a laugh. Exactly how long have the two legacy airlines been in bankruptcy proceedings. Exactly how many extensions are you going to grant for a "reorganization" plan to be developed?

If the government had simply kept its fingers out of the pot, then we would have seen true capitalism at work.

But we allowed two airlines who were terminally ill to infect an entire industry. So instead of two really sick and dying airlines that may actually die, we have 29 sick airlines. Two airlines who don't pay their bills, have shifted their retirement accounts onto the backs of every American taxpayer and can't figure out how to find the executive washroom are killing everyone else.

So naturally the best thing to do is restore government regulation over the entire industry?

How long are we going to keep doing and accepting this stuff?

Let's ask a question. If your airline turned a profit next year, what do you think it would do to your wages / union contract?

OK, just as an example, what if United was just declared a basket case - hopelessly mired in lawyers and entanglements and really can't find its way back to reorganization. The judge gives up and forces Chapter 7 liquidation. Suddenly, UA and UE are forced to shut their doors. Thousands and thousands of flights are cancelled. Customers running like crazy to find flights.

Dont think of the newspaper articles - think like a businessman - how can you profit from this? A short term lack of seats. Demand far exceeds supply. Who has price control? The consumer or the airline? You bet - no more Mr. nice guy - you want to go to Florida that one way ticket isn't $49, its $249. If every single seat on your airliner just magically started making $50 more per seat, $100 more per seat - would your airline get healthy. Would you profit?

We don't need MORE regulation, we need less. Let the strong survive.
 

Ben Dover

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Re-regulation? Sorry to say it, but BAD IDEA!!!

The sick members of the herd need to be allowed to die. Then the balance of the herd will be healthier.
 

michael707767

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Ben Dover said:
Re-regulation? Sorry to say it, but BAD IDEA!!!

The sick members of the herd need to be allowed to die. Then the balance of the herd will be healthier.


You are right. But the problem with that idea is that it should have been done right from the start. Its not fair to have allowed UAL and USAir to wallow in BK for years, dragging down all the other airlines. To change the rules now is not fair to those who have fault long and hard to avoid BK.
 

FreedomAList

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labbats said:
I'd rather struggle for a job that was worth the pitfalls then wallow in this regional pay and work rules for another thirty years.
Yah,

Cuz who can live on a measly 80k+ per year?
 

suupah

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Well something has to happen because this is a vital industry to the economy and national security.
 

viper548

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I like the minimum price per segment idea. There is already a government rate for certain city pairs, that would be a good place to start.
 

FN FAL

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labbats said:
If a state isn't allowed to sell cigarettes for less than the state mandated minimum...
states don't sell cigarettes...
 
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